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Comment count is 64
Blue - 2013-04-28

Take the red pill like in the matrix. The Matrix is a good movie!


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

I used to know a guy who loved the Matrix. He was a misogynistic douche with anger management issues who (based on some of the opinions he held) probably liked Atlas Shrugged and ended up dating an ex of mine for a while a year or two after we broke up and then borderline stalking her when she dumped him, culminating in appearing at her house one evening and, after she agreed to let him in to have one last conversation, working himself up into a frenzy and punching a hole in her wall.

Oh, he also thought Fight Club had a complex, meaningful message.

If I didn't already think enjoying those movies on any level beyond camp was a big red flag, he would have opened my eyes.


WHO WANTS DESSERT - 2013-04-28

His head would probably explode if he knew that Lana Wachowski is transgendered.


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

Oh, he dated a woman with no arms for a few months once for reasons I expect were less than honorable.

She kind of sucked too, but she was able to take a cigarette out of the pack, light it and smoke it using her feet while driving, and that goes a long way.

As far as Lana Wachowski being a tranny goes, I don't think that would bother him. For all his flaws, prejudice wasn't one of them. Unless he thought you were "pretentious" - i.e. made any kind of art at all that he didn't like for any reason or held opinions he disagreed with. I was at a big loft party one time and he literally let himself into a neighbor's photography studio and destroyed like 25 of her framed prints because he thought they were "pretentious." He did not make any kind of art himself; normally I'm all for the "not being an artist doesn't mean you aren't qualified to criticize art" but there are exceptions.

Guy was a total twat and the fact that my girlfriend had known him since high school and was completely blind to what he'd grown up to be (up until he turned it on her) and continuing to include him i our circle of friends definitely contributed to the demise of our relationship (and the alienation of a number of my friends), although it was doomed regardless.


Mother_Puncher - 2013-04-28

Hey buddy, I like Fight Club and The Matrix.


Shoebox Joe - 2013-04-29

I'm glad I never took that existentialist bullshit seriously. I get the feeling that 90% of the Nietzsche community are angry assholes covering themselves.


ashtar. - 2013-04-28

MRA vs Feminist has officially replaced Creationist vs Atheist as the omnipresent internet ur-argument.


zerdzer - 2013-04-28

feminism is pretty much just shit

MRA is shit

this video is shit

"MRA vs Feminist" arguments are complete shit


Spaceman Africa - 2013-04-28

But Zerdzer is still a nice guy!


ashtar. - 2013-04-28

Could you preface your remarks with a "TRIGGER WARNING" next time?


WHO WANTS DESSERT - 2013-04-28

ShitPoetvSays


zerdzer - 2013-04-28

don't tell me you people actually think feminism is a good idea

none of my employees are gonna get by being a feminist, no way in hell

time to warm up the pink slips


Wander - 2013-04-28

I MEAN IM ALL FOR EQUALITY OF WOMEN BUT LETS BE HONEST WHAT HAS "FEMINISM" EVEN DONE?

If this is your thought process, the issue isn't feminism, it's your own ignorance, thanks.

If your thought process is this instead:

FEMINISM IS JUST WOMEN WANTING MORE THAN MEN/REVERSE MISOGYNY

Then you actually ARE an MRA, sorry. Self-termination is the recommended course of action.


Wander - 2013-04-28

Oh wait shit I think it's a troll nevermind.


Toenails - 2013-04-28

Well, I for one, don't think feminism is a good idea.

I mean, what has a woman ever done for me?

...

Oh yeah. Never mind. Disregard what I said above.


Spaceman Africa - 2013-04-28

Preybyemail is buys nowadays so zerdzer is steppin' up to plate


zerdzer - 2013-04-28

the problem is, every person i meet who calls themselves a "feminist" has a different definition for it. same shit with "MRA" people.

it's sad, because few people realize how much feminism/MRA divides people based on gender. really, feminism and MRA are nothing more than sexist score-keeping. i haven't met any cool MRAs but i've met a few cool people who call themselves "feminist" when they are actually just humanists. but usually, a person calling themselves feminist does not even know what feminism is, and could not agree with another feminist completely on what it is either.

humanism is the way to go. you'd be unwise look at society and say "hmm wow, everybody's got a lot of problems. but let's focus on solving all the problems for the women! after all, they are underprivileged and it's always been men that are in charge." you have to acknowledge everybody's problems at the same time; if you only focus on one demographic's problems at a time, you just end up creating more problems with your incomplete understanding of the world (which is what feminism and MRA both do, by polarizing people. read: feminism vs MRA arguments on the internet)


Spaceman Africa - 2013-04-28

god why won't people think of all the problems that plague men these days????


zerdzer - 2013-04-28

every female problem has a male problem to go with it.

one example:

in the west, women aren't as successful as men in the workforce because men are traditionally expected to be breadwinners. a woman may choose to be a stay at home wife if she wants. she can go and get a job too, though she's less likely to be a CEO or something like that. neither are taboo, and neither should be taboo. but what if a man doesn't want to be a breadwinner? he doesn't start a family; if he started a family and was a stay at home dad, he'd face shame for not filling the usual male role as a breadwinner.

if you think that women are less successful in the workforce because "the patriarchy" is keeping women down, then you're delusional. there's no such thing. every society has its set of cultures and traditions, stigmas and taboos. men and women alike are affected by these. to pretend that only women or only men are affected by them is to be contributing to the problems, whatever they may be. feminism and MRA are shit for that reason; they even turn men and women against each other. ridiculous


WHO WANTS DESSERT - 2013-04-28

Men do have problems, but they're all the result of patriarchy and feminists have been working towards fixing them long before MRAs were a thing.

Men are expected to be breadwinners for their families and pay for dates? It's because men make more for the same work and women are still expected to be home-makers in some capacity.

Men who like kids are automatically assumed to be pedophiles? It's because childrearing is for womenfolk.

Men are expected to be emotionless and always in control? It's because women are characterized as hysterical and emotionally unstable.


jangbones - 2013-04-28

1) all people who post on poetv have the exact same beliefs and morals

2) internet drama is interesting and productive

3) no one ever attempts to troll this website


zerdzer - 2013-04-28

"Men are expected to be breadwinners for their families and pay for dates? It's because men make more for the same work and women are still expected to be home-makers in some capacity."

oh.

when in recorded history have men not been expected to be breadwinners for their families? back when chivalry was in vogue in medieval europe, men weren't in charge because "men make more for the same work". men and women did completely different work, and their specific social problems were completely different, but the core reasons those problems existed are still the same today (and it's not petty shit like "how women are characterized", or "men make more". but i invite you to think more about possible reasons that "child rearing is for womenfolk".)

this is the problem that i keep seeing over and over with feminists and MRAs; they don't think about why men and women have always had different social roles. MRA/feminism only deals with contemporary social issues affecting men or women, so they can't break out of their narrow understanding of the two genders because they only have a contemporary context to take information from (MRA/feminism are both pretty new things).

and of course, this lack of appropriate information and context is nothing more than ignorance. it just pits people against each other in new ways! someday, everybody will get tired of it, you'll see.


Spaceman Africa - 2013-04-28

"MRA/feminism only deals with contemporary social issues affecting men or women"
Well yeah, it doesn't make any fucking sense if they focused on the problems of people in the past


fermun - 2013-04-28

Stop being so shit, zerdzer.


zerdzer - 2013-04-28

they don't focus on the problems of people in the past. they don't even try to understand the problems of people in the past. do you see the problem?

men and women are very different. their behavior is distinct because their biology is distinct. there have always been "manly" and "womanly" behaviors, and cultural norms were dictated by those. this stuff isn't new, it's how humans have always behaved. it's not some contemporary societal problem like "men get more pay for the same work". feminists and MRAs love to keep score about petty shit like that and they miss out on the real important information.

when you realize that men and women have had social roles since before our cute little modern era and its cute little problems, you'll realize that these social roles are not accurately described as "problems" and they aren't just affecting women, either. these social roles create problems because of how they interface with today's society. this isn't just a problem for men or women, this is a problem for humans; the solution is a better understanding of why things are the way they are (for everybody).

in the big picture, this stuff is just petty squabbles. feminism/MRA hasn't seemed to give anybody a similar perspective to that yet, as far as i can see. feminism/MRA has actually prevented people from seeing things this way, as is made evident by Spaceman Africa's comment here.

okay, that's enough for me. i'm sure everybody thinks i'm just trolling now

whatever, you're all fired, you pizza fucken shits


SteamPoweredKleenex - 2013-04-28

>>>"they don't think about why men and women have always had different social roles."

Mostly because those in charge claimed God wanted women to be subservient, quiet, and other BS. To claim that's not been pervasive is to ignore pretty much most of history. Right now, a popular example is that of Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin. Google her name and you'll likely find images with the caption: “I discovered what the sun is made of. Too bad I didn’t have a penis, then you’d know that.”

>>>" this lack of appropriate information and context is nothing more than ignorance"

Yeah, just the kind you need a little self-inspection to look at.

Can someone take any cause too far? Sure. Is there still inequality favoring men after centuries of massive inequality favoring men? You'd have to be willfully ignoring it claim otherwise.

Whatever your business is, I sure hope I never avail myself of it.


Adham Nu'man - 2013-04-28

MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS AMIRITE?


Caminante Nocturno - 2013-04-28

Zerdzer uses so many words to say nothing at all, and everyone feels compelled to follow suit.


Adham Nu'man - 2013-04-28

YEAH THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

One time back in '97 or '98 some friends and I trolled a suburban punk show by getting ourselves put on the bill at the last minute (day of the show) under the name "Feminasm," played half a dozen deliberately shitty "hardcore" songs we wrote two hours before the show, and and then made a bunch of commotion and rolled around and played a terrible, out of tune cover of "Sweet Home Alabama" that lasted about 15 minutes.

Not to toot my own horn, but that is halfway decent trolling. Step up your game, Zerdzer.


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

Oh, we also covered the singer with 3 or 4 large tubs of multicolored marshmallow fluff. When we were packing up afterward some middle school BMX kids across the street yelled at the singer that it looked like a condor shit on him.

Moral: even if you're trolling pretty well, you're still going to be mocked by 12 year olds and they'll be right.


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

I'll give Zerdzer this: the fundamental problem underlying all of this is ultimately one of class. If women weren't still relegated to a lower class (relative to their more general social class, of course) because of their gender, then their might be a bit of truth to some o the things he's saying (of course if that were the case, Feminism probably wouldn't exist to begin with, or if it did it would be a fringe movement of attention seekers just like TFL). So if you're blind to the fact that women are relegated to second class status within their socioeconomic class, antifeminist rhetoric makes some sense, and it's very easy to be blind to anything that pervades your culture and benefits you. That doesn't count the vocal minority (MRA, TFL, PUA, etc.) who really do seem to just straight up hate women and make a lot of noise about it on Youtube, of course.


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

Plus there is definitely a small, vocal minority of awful, reactionary "feminists" too. Being on the right side of an issue doesn't automatically mean someone isn't an idiot. And thank goodness for that, because our site would be a little less rich otherwise.


La Loco - 2013-04-28

Can't we all, just, get along?


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

Oh, zerdzer, "patriarchy" refers to a phenomenon, not a specific group/organization/conspiracy/demographic/whatever. When someone (who knows what they're talking about) refers to "the patriarchy" they aren't talking about people they are talking about a complex, organic system of biases, social structures, cultural blind spots (those are the big one in my book) and so on, not a shadowy coalition of men who are deliberately working to keep women down (though people like that do exist they're more symptom than cause).


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

" they don't focus on the problems of people in the past. they don't even try to understand the problems of people in the past."

You know who first taught me about both the importance of understanding the historical context and antecedents of modern culture, as well as the absolute necessity of not projecting contemporary values onto the historical record? A hardcore feminist.


Spaceman Africa - 2013-04-28

I'm never getting drunk and reading zerdzer's posts again


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

For god's sake man, don't read them sober!


Toenails - 2013-04-28

Just a quick question to all the "Poe-ettes" (hahahahahah oh god, please don't let me use that word again), why do you think we guys hate the term "the friend zone"?

I actually love being friends with everyone, and I don't understand why being friends with a woman is so fucking bad. I would appreciate hearing about your experiences with your guy friends, and if you have any dudes in your life that don't understand boundaries, and you are a bad enough dude to share embarrassing personal space intrusions, could you tell me about times you knew that friendships with a male friend was not okay?


That guy - 2013-04-28

Paragraph 2 got away from you. Try again when sober and contented.


Bort - 2013-04-28

The problem, I think, is that guys with little experience with women are going off what every movie, TV show, and afterschool special since forever has taught them: be patient and respectful, and sooner or later the girl you pine for will dump the more handsome asshole she's currently with, because she has come to perceive your less overt charms.

In other words, these guys think that friendship is a temporary condition, and feel misled when it is permanent. It's not that they expect any and every girl-friend to want to become a girlfriend, but how about just one?

And a lot of the time, this has more to do with validation of personal worth than sex. Take a poorly-socialized guy who has always felt left out, who is also being left out of the dating scene. More than anything he's going to want reassurance that he is wanted and loved, and has decided a girlfriend will resolve that once and for all.

This isn't exactly healthy, but neither is it as toxic as some like to make it. The best thing is for a girl-friend to explain that girls and guys view relationships differently, where girls are either feeling it or not, and there's not necessarily much rhyme or reason to it. But that is a completely distinct calculation from whether they want someone in their lives -- it's not a "friend zone" so much as a "trusted, loved, and wanted" zone. Just not an exclusive pairing zone.

Granted, there are guys who are assholes who are running a long con trying to get into women's pants by biding their time as "friends", but that's not what I'm talking about. All that needs to be said about manipulative assholes is that they're manipulative assholes, whatever specific manipulation they use, and it's best to steer clear of them.


joelkazoo - 2013-04-28

Stars for Bort.


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

I hate the term because it's ladder theory garbage and I've seen plenty of guys really mess up their lives in concrete ways by believing in that kind of crap.


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

I don't buy the "girls and guys see relationships differently" thing for a second, though. I mean, in the aggregate they probably do but it's completely a result of cultural influences, and personal experience certainly doesn't bear it out (for what that's worth).


Cherry Pop Culture - 2013-04-29

Add me to the camp of not believing men and women see relationships differently. I know I have been tricked into wasting my time by douchebags I thought I cared about. I know the same damn thing happened to friends and it doesn't matter what set of genitals you have, motherfuckers walk among us. I remember the last guy in my life fell for me HARD and I was an emotionally unavailable, suicidally depressed mess with nothing going on with my life. I walked away. I just said, "I'm leaving you," after dinner. Seriously. Not one of my proudest moments in my (still kinda young) life.

Yeah, yeah, there is *that* guy who wants an ego boost and sees a woman as a thing to discard when he gets bored. But I do not see them as the norm, far from actually. Women can be dickbags too, look at MY example above.

Not to mention, when you pull gender into conversation, you are speaking from a heterosexual point of view that removes gay and trans experience. Life isn't clear cut and you can only go so far in sweeping statements.


Riskbreaker - 2013-04-28

That's why you can't marry a woman without gills, you're from different worlds!


Xenocide - 2013-04-28

Oooh, I've wasted my life.


memedumpster - 2013-04-28

Tab A and Slot B are exactly the same : jerks.


Caminante Nocturno - 2013-04-28

I'm sick of all of these Feminazis! I say bring on the Femistalinists!

Get a load of the ladies in the Femmer Rouge!

Let's head down to South Africa to experience some Femmpartheid!

Oh, weep for the Southern Man, victim of the Femme Crow Laws!

Oh, no! America is under attack from Gal Qaeda!


Caminante Nocturno - 2013-04-28

Oh, that reminds me!

http://tinyurl.com/cpjbu68


Adham Nu'man - 2013-04-28

The New Womb Order is trying to take cuntrol from men by staging false fallopian attacks on our own citizens and spraying menstr-trails from airplanes to make all men sterile.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!


Adham Nu'man - 2013-04-28

NYMPHOWARS.COM


Nikon - 2013-04-28

Stars for Gal Qaeda.


Old_Zircon - 2013-04-28

Why are you supporting Gal Qaeda? WHY DO YOU HATE OUR FREEDOMS?


poopy - 2013-04-28

Gal Queda reminded me of this classic:
http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=90887

NYMPHOWARS.COM is great!


RocketBlender - 2013-04-28

Endless stars for you, CN, both the post and the link.


Shoebox Joe - 2013-04-29

Ditto, 5 stars for you CN


Binro the Heretic - 2013-04-28

That ice cream dispenser metaphor is the only one we need from now on when we talk about privilege and the angst resulting from its loss.


Xenocide - 2013-04-28

It's time to switch things up from the old "slice of the pie" paradigm.


eatenmyeyes - 2013-04-28

Why is it set to private?


eatenmyeyes - 2013-04-28

Never mind.


ashtar. - 2013-04-29

Creator's final thoughts, if anyone is interested:
http://bombsfall.tumblr.com/post/49106219582/some-concluding-t houghts-and-answers-to-questions


Sudan no1 - 2013-04-29

God, I'm glad more people are making fun of that 'red pill' crap.


gambol - 2013-05-01

one of you jerks just introduced me to ladder theory and I am diminished


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