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Comment count is 46
Hooker - 2015-05-02

I'm more offended by the "brewing up controversy" statement at the beginning. Unlike Budweiser, you meant to do that.


Kid Fenris - 2015-05-02

I find it unbeerlievable that a company would do this.


Gmork - 2015-05-02

I found the honesty refreshing.

It's not just removing "No" from the answer to the question: Will you sleep with me?

IT's also removing "no" from the answer to the question: I wonder if it's a bad idea to jump over this bollard, potentially crushing my testicles if I fail?


Nikon - 2015-05-02

>it promotes rape culture

Yes, but what doesn't? Everything promotes rape culture. Cars. Videogames. Buildings. Comic books. Drinks. You can even look on an FDA label to see how many grams of rape culture are in the food you buy. And time and time again, it's been proven that the only way to combat rape culture is to donate to the reporter's Patreon.


Bort - 2015-05-02

I will grant you that there are people who are overly ready to declare anything and everything an example of rape culture, but when an alcohol company is recommending using their product to get past "no", they are at the very least encouraging people to use their product to get other people to impair their judgment.

I'm not seeing how this could be an innocent mistake on Budweiser's part.


Rafiki - 2015-05-02

Their mistake wasn't putting that slogan on the bottle, it was giving the public the tiniest amount of credit that they'd apply 5 seconds of critical thinking. People seriously think that this was intending to promote rape. Holy shit! They actually believe people sat around in a big meeting room and decided, "You know what would be great for our brand image? Encouraging people to rape each other."

If you bother to take just a couple of seconds to think that through and realize the absurdity of it, you can then move onto the next step of figuring out what it REALLY means and for once actually put something in its proper context. People drink so they'll not be so uptight, and self-conscious, and be willing to go outside and socialize, instead of staying at home, drawing the blinds, turning all the lights out, and hiding under a big blanket so no one will look at them. That's what the slogan is clearly invoking. But you have to treat people like dumbasses, because that's as deep as they're willing to think.


IrishWhiskey - 2015-05-02

"People seriously think that this was intending to promote rape."

Um, no.

"That's what the slogan is clearly invoking. But you have to treat people like dumbasses, because that's as deep as they're willing to think."

When a company comes out with a slogan that says "Our prices are collapsing! Now 9-11% off!" we can recognize they didn't think it through and meant something else, while also recognizing "That's a super fucking stupid thing to have on there, any sane and moral person would take it off". You don't have to pretend people are dumber than they are in order to get mad at them for pointing out when advertising is bad.


Oscar Wildcat - 2015-05-02

What I believe is a bunch of highly skilled, highly paid ad executives looked at their target demographic and designed an ad campaign specifically to incite controversy over the double meaning of their slogan. Now drinking this crappy beer is a political statement!

LETS TALK ABOUT THIS BEER SOME MORE!

Stars, of course.


EvilHomer - 2015-05-02

Oscar Wildcat is correct.

The only way to win is not to play.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-02

>>Their mistake wasn't putting that slogan on the bottle, it was giving the public the tiniest amount of credit that they'd apply 5 seconds of critical thinking. People seriously think that this was intending to promote rape. Holy shit! They actually believe people sat around in a big meeting room and decided, "You know what would be great for our brand image? Encouraging people to rape each other."

Nobody actually believes that. Somebody wrote a slogan that speaks to the idea that getting someone I(e.g. a woman) drunk will get you laid. And because that idea is pervasive in parts of the culture, it got through.

about Rape culture isn't the same thing as rape. It's attitudes and customs that dovetail with rape. When men post sexual insults and dick pics to women, that's rape culture, using sex to intimidate and humiliate women. Around 2010, Boxxy's youtube page got the same comment about 10 times a day: "I'd shut her up with my dick in her mouth" I'm sure that if you confronted these guys, none of them would consider "I would shut her up with my dick in her mouth", as a rape threat. I mean, seriously.

It would be nice if we could call attention to this without getting all angry. It wasn't a crime, it was a fuckup. Feminism should consider this a teaching moment, not an occasion for vengeance. Budweiser should be embarrassed, and if they apologize, their apology should be cheerfully accepted.


Potrod - 2015-05-02

My mom used to tell me, "You shouldn't say 'no' to things! Say yes!" and she was obviously talking about doing things, going out and meeting people, not nonconsensual sex. This is the exact same fucking thing and if you think it's about rape you're projecting. Budweiser's only mistake is that they should have anticipated that their innocuous slogan would so easily be twisted by dumbasses looking for outrage.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>>My mom used to tell me, "You shouldn't say 'no' to things! Say yes!" and she was obviously talking about doing things, going out and meeting people, not nonconsensual sex. This is the exact same fucking thing and if you think it's about rape you're projecting.

Projecting?

“The perfect beer for removing ‘no’ from your vocabulary for the night."

This isn't your mom having a conversation with you. It's a beer ad. It's not delusional or projecting to see sleazy sexual innuendo in a motherfucking BEER AD.

It isn't expressly about non-consensual sex, but it's definitely about sex, and it's unacceptably cavalier about consent. That's really insensitive when your product is beer. Unlike your mom, beer has been a factor in many many sexual assaults..

Like I said before, it's not a crime, it's a fuckup... But it's definitely a fuckup.

Budweiser has already apologized for this. They're not going to try to defend this shit. They said that what they did was wrong, and I have every reason to believe that they'll be more careful in the future. That's the point of this. It's all you can expect.


EvilHomer - 2015-05-03

John, my dear old chap, read Oscar Wildcat's response.

You are precisely the sort of person Peggy Olson was thinking of when she came up with this new Bud Light tagline.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

I already read it, and I think it's bullshit. LETS ASSOCIATE OUR PRODUCT WITH RAPE! Let's become the beer that will make women want to stay away from you!

Nothing is impossible, but that would be really crazy, if there was ever supposed to be anything edgy about this, their extremely contrite apology takes the edge off. Mangina that I am, I've already forgiven them.


Bort - 2015-05-03

"Unlike your mom, beer has been a factor in many many sexual assaults.."

Worst attempt at a "yo mama" snap ever.


EvilHomer - 2015-05-03

How is what Mr Wildcat said bullshit? That is exactly what the Bud Light people are doing, and your old-man reaction is exactly what they've socially engineered you to do.

Let me break it down for you. Peggy Olson and Don Draper land the Bud Light account. Don asks Peggy, who is our target demographic? The frat bro. Who is the frat bro's natural enemy? The campus feminist.

After an afternoon of deliberation, Peggy (not an idiot, but a brilliant creative executive with years of experience and a pretty sizable salary to match) says, OK, here is our strategy, Don. We come up with a tagline that will appeal to the frat bro, and is juuuuuust risque enough to set off the campus feminist, without alienating anyone else (because let's face it, this controversy is -pretty fucking stupid-). What will this strategy accomplish? Well, with any luck, the tagline will prove to be controversial, sparking a fearsome cultural battle. Bud Light's new ad campaign will make the (soft) news, some campus feminists will take the bait, and their public display of indignation will soon pique the interest of yet more frat bros, causing a viral social feedback loop. Soon, the battle-lines are drawn, and it's a showdown between MRAs and their hated rivals, the female-MRAs. Peggy's clients will be the talk of the town; people will discuss the "issue", __but what they are really doing is thinking about Bud Light__.

And it's working! In the past day-and-a-half, I have thought about Bud Light more than I have in the last five years combined. For *you*, those numbers may be higher! And everyone you talk to about this, every sentence of text you devote to the pressing social question of whether or not Bud Light wants you to rape people, it's simply more awareness being raised about the cool, refreshing taste of Bud Light.

You're part of the ad, Mr Holmes. A puppet dancing on Peggy Olson's strings.


TeenerTot - 2015-05-03

I find the Peggy Olson reference interesting, because I get the feeling there weren't any women involved in this marketing goof. If anyone familiar with the pointy end of rape culture saw this, I think the slogan would have been tweaked to be less offensive in a certain light.
But whatever.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>>Worst attempt at a "yo mama" snap ever.

Oh God you are so wrong! It's the BEST "yo mama" snap ever, because it's NOT an insult! How is it that you don't appreciate the elegance of that?

I respect Potrod's mom implicitly. It can't be easy to be a woman whose son can't distinguish between the great advice she tries to to pass on, and what is arguably the worst advertising slogan of the past twenty years.

Seriously, she sounds great.

>>How is what Mr Wildcat said bullshit? That is exactly what the Bud Light people are doing, and your old-man reaction is exactly what they've socially engineered you to do.

Also : global warming is real. 911 was NOT an inside job. Oswald acted alone. America actually DID land on the moon. Obama was born in the United States.

Occam's razor, bitches!

>>You're part of the ad, Mr Holmes. A puppet dancing on Peggy Olson's strings.

I keep meaning to Google her.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>>It can't be easy to be a woman whose son can't distinguish between the great advice she tries to to pass on, and what is arguably the worst advertising slogan of the past twenty years.


My gender bias is showing. I always assume everyone is male. Sometimes its embarrassing.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>>It can't be easy to be a woman whose son can't distinguish between the great advice she tries to to pass on, and what is arguably the worst advertising slogan of the past twenty years.


My gender bias is showing. I always assume everyone is male. Sometimes its embarrassing.


EvilHomer - 2015-05-03

Umm, Mr Holmes, I don't know if you realize this, but Americans DID land on the moon. 9/11 was NOT an inside job.

Occam's Razor does not mean what you think it means.

(Peggy Olson is one of the main characters on Mad Men, an advertising executive and currently the de facto head of the Mad Men's creative department. I have no idea why you do not watch that show; it is boring and girls like it, which is right up your alley)


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>>Occam's Razor does not mean what you think it means.

According to Wikipedia, it does. I looked it up BEFORE I posted.

Of course, I learned about Occam's razor the same way we all did, from Lisa Simpson.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>> I have no idea why you do not watch that show; it is boring and girls like it, which is right up your alley.

I don't have a TV. I don't mean that in a snooty pretentious way. I watch a shitload of Hulu and YouTube. But that leaves out certain things: Breaking Bad, Madmen, The Walking Dead, Cougar Town.

I can't escape Game of Thrones, my friend watches every episode over and over when I'm at her house.

I did see one episode of Madmen. I did think it was boring.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>>Umm, Mr Holmes, I don't know if you realize this, but Americans DID land on the moon. 9/11 was NOT an inside job.

????

Isn't that what I said?


EvilHomer - 2015-05-03

Well maybe you should look it up again, John, because what Occam's Razor really means, is that when given a choice between multiple explanations for a thing, and each of these explanations has the same amount of empirical evidence with which to support it, then usually, the simplest explanation is the best. Your explanation - that Mr Wildcat is full of shit - not only has zero evidence to support it (Mr Wildcat's hypothesis, by contrast, is based on a readily observed, well-known advertising technique), but it also requires huge leaps of credulity and coincidence in order for it to be true.

Which of the following do you think is the "simplest" explanation, John?


◇ - That a crack team of highly paid, highly skilled professionals, university-educated businessmen and women who've made it their life's work to learn how to manipulate public opinion and trick the plebs into doing what their clients want, SOMEHOW, despite collectively having what may amount to centuries worth of professional experience amongst the lot of them, managed to drop the ball on a national advertising campaign for an account worth billions of dollars globally, and that this mistake not only went unnoticed by the dozens - perhaps hundreds - of professionals working directly at the advertising office, but also by literally every single other person in the entire chain of industry - including executives at Budweiser, managers at canning plants, machine operators, layout artists, and the guy who drives the Bud Light truck - EVERY SINGLE PERSON in that chain of industry, from the eight-hour long creative meeting which came up with that slogan clear on down to the beer store that sold your neighbour his 30 pack, completely and utterly screwed the FUCK up.

◇ - Or, the advertisers got what they were looking for.



Make no mistake, what Mr Wildcat describes is nothing new. Using controversy to sell products is a popular tactic, particularly for marketing products to young men. Intentionally courting controversy has been used to sell video games, rock music, horror movies, dietary supplements, magazines, comic books, celebrity memorabilia, religious cults, webhosting, sports shows, Youtube channels, Kickstarters, flannel shirts, and yes, even beer. In fact, with some businesses - The Insane Clown Posse, for example - viral marketing through controlled controversy is the ONLY form of marketing they engage in!

Face it, Mr Holmes. You've been played. You're the equivalent of a sour-faced Christian, standing outside a Marilyn Manson show with a big Jesus Loves You sign.


Oscar Wildcat - 2015-05-03

It's less about the idea, and more about John's reflexive hatred of your humble narrator.

Anyway, if you were a real man John, you'd not knuckle under to the feminazi's and you'd drink this delicious bud light beer. It's making a statement, dude!


Oscar Wildcat - 2015-05-03

Also: If Budweiser is the King of beers, does it not follow that it possesses the jus primae noctis?


EvilHomer - 2015-05-03

Well, primae noctis was a myth, first promoted by latter-day French liberals looking to discredit the aristocracy. Even if it were true, it would not apply until one's wedding night, which in our newly post-Christian society, is no longer the point of consummation between young men and women (particularly not frat bros and sorority coeds). It would also mean that *the beer* got to sleep with your would-be sex partner, not you! And who the hell wants to be cuckolded by a cheap, cruddy, pisswater beer?

(there is probably a DA community for that fetish, however)

But yeah, John's hatred is probably clouding his mind, which is a shame.

http://13afttfvu3322ik7030bcfxmkf.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/file s/2013/02/star-wars-quotes-yoda.jpg


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>>>It's less about the idea, and more about John's reflexive hatred of your humble narrator.

?????????

Excuse me? Did I even mention you?


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>>Face it, Mr Holmes. You've been played.

No, I haven't, though you keep trying.


EvilHomer - 2015-05-03

>> Excuse me? Did I even mention you?

Yes, you did mention him. That is Mr Wildcat. He is the person you said was bullshit. That is what this entire conversation has been about.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

Which of the following do you think is the "simplest" explanation, John?


>>◇ - That a crack team of highly paid, highly skilled professionals, university-educated businessmen and women who've made it their life's work to learn how to manipulate public opinion and trick the plebs into doing what their clients want, SOMEHOW, despite collectively having what may amount to centuries worth of professional experience amongst the lot of them, managed to drop the ball on a national advertising campaign for an account worth billions of dollars globally, and that this mistake not only went unnoticed by the dozens - perhaps hundreds - of professionals working directly at the advertising office, but also by literally every single other person in the entire chain of industry - including executives at Budweiser, managers at canning plants, machine operators, layout artists, and the guy who drives the Bud Light truck - EVERY SINGLE PERSON in that chain of industry, from the eight-hour long creative meeting which came up with that slogan clear on down to the beer store that sold your neighbour his 30 pack, completely and utterly screwed the FUCK up.

This wasn't a super bowl ad. The UP FOR WHATEVER campaign involves printing a different message on each individual bottle. That slogan was one of at least hundreds, perhaps thousands, that went out. It wouldn't have gotten that much scrutiny, until somebody noticed it and put it on Twiitter.


>>◇ - Or, the advertisers got what they were looking for

>>.And what they were looking for was to be "the official beer of rape culture"? If this sticks to Bud Light, if it becomes a punch line, if it starts to be be a joke and people start repeating it, no man in a bar is going to want to have a bottle of Bud Light in his hand when he's trying to talk to a woman, Do you doubt that? Now, it probably won't stick that badly, but what's being risked is catastrophic.

I think what you're describing here is a choice between a screwup and a much more fundamental and profound screwup.

But listen, about ten posts ago, I acknowledged that I could be wrong about this. I've simply chosen what I think is more likely, based on what I shall call Lisa Simpson's razor. YOU'RE the crazy guy with the sign in his hand, who is insisting that you have empirical certainly for what you believe, even though what you believe is an elaborate narrative that is long on assumptions and short on evidence... because you have a theory.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-03

>>Yes, you did mention him. That is Mr Wildcat. He is the person you said was bullshit. That is what this entire conversation has been about.

That's bullshit, Homer. Here's what I said

>>I already read it, and I think it's bullshit.

You see, it IS about the idea, which is an "it" It wasn't about Oscar, a "HE"

All I know about Oscar Wildcat is his name, which I find sort of endearing, because Oscar Wild was the name of my first cat. And I think he's wrong about this, but he's not the one who is insisting that I'm some kind of a dupe, a sheeple, because I'm not buying into this narrative. I'll admit that I was a little annoyed for a moment, but that wasn't at Mr. Wildcat.

I think you're just being annoying for fun, and I wouldn't have ontinued this discussion if I hadn't been moderately entertained by it. But I do have to go now. I have an appointment. If you want it, the last word is yours.
No time to proofread, expect big mistakes.


EvilHomer - 2015-05-03

No, John, I don't have a sign in my hand. I'm the guy trying to tell you, as a friend, to stop falling for this nonsense. You're too old to be this much of a sucker, John, and too nice to be taken advantage of so.

At the absolute worst, I'm Roddy Piper telling you to put on the sunglasses, which in this analogy are Oscar Wildcat. Only this isn't a movie, this is real life, and instead of reptilians, it's just Peggy and Don playing you for a sap, like they always do.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-04

You ARE aware that these are fictional characters, right?


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-04

And why are they playing ME fora sap in particular? I don't drink beer. Nobody wants to rape me. My opinion on this matter has no consequence for me, the people at Budweiser, you, or anybody else. I've been enjoying the discussion immensely, but if I'm wrong, there is no penalty, just like if I'm right, there's no reward.


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2015-05-04

>> it's simply more awareness being raised about the cool, refreshing taste of Bud Light.

LOL, I must have skipped over this part before.

Awesome trolling Homer, high marks!


EvilHomer - 2015-05-04

You're still thinking about Bud Light, John. It's been days, many long days, since this ad-copy-fueled pseudo-story broke, and you're still thinking about Bud Light. You're still talking about Bud Light. You're still taking precious time out of your day to raise awareness for the Number One Light Beer in taste tests all across America.

Peggy and Don have colonized your brain, turning your mind share into a 24-hour Bud Light kegger party that would make Spuds MacKenzie cry boozey tears of pride.


EvilHomer - 2015-05-02

I, for one, am offended that people are still drinking Bud Light.


Gmork - 2015-05-02

This.


SixDigitDebt - 2015-05-02

Crap beer has crap slogan. News at 11.


TheInternetisFullofGenitals - 2015-05-02

It's the beer of frat boys. Of course people are going to equate the slogan with rape.

Nobody with self-respect drinks that crap anyway.


Nominal - 2015-05-02

Youre thinking Natty Ice, GRANDPA.


Maggot Brain - 2015-05-02

As a rape survivor I've never liked these lines of ads, it's all pretty people who are more or less kidnapped and forced to have fun.


Scynne - 2015-05-02

Ban everything.


Lothar - 2015-05-02

So it looks like they're asking folks in Frisco.


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