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Desc:Officer Crotch Patrol is on tha case!
Category:Crime, Crime
Tags:Police, bigotry, lgbt, conservativism, why the terrorists like us
Submitted:memedumpster
Date:05/04/16
Views:2148
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Comment count is 48
Oscar Wildcat - 2016-05-04

Bathroom Police would make an excellent obscure Japanese Anime.


Accidie - 2016-05-04

here


SolRo - 2016-05-05

I'd be surprised if it's not already a schlocky porno


Rosebeekee - 2016-05-05

Think of all the awkward misunderstandings! So, tsundere!


Mr. Purple Cat Esq. - 2016-05-04

^^^


That guy - 2016-05-04

What do you all think of the bigger question here?? (setting aside the Phobe Squad for just a minute, and also setting aside whether this was a planned action to provoke the Phobe Squad in South Carolina where I'm assuming this happened)

By bigger question I mean how do we avoid crotch-patrolling in a completely 'pragmatic politics' type of way: how do you handle conservative mindsets, plus the potential for abuse of letting anyone into a women's room (which will result in crime from criminals who take advantage of the situation, whether that's politically convenient or not)?

Federally-mandated unisex bathrooms, or people using bathrooms unchallenged are two things that are never going to happen.

In my eyes, we have a problem without a solution here. I don't want that to be the case, but it very much seems to be.
There is no reasonable way to decide how people should view gender. There is certainly bullshit metaphysics on both sides of the question.


That guy - 2016-05-04

(as a side note, I have seen a really deliberate bad-behavior twist on this, but I'm willing to chalk it up as one crazy dipshit: gay man who was not transgender insisting he can use the women's room because he's gay)

Interested to hear what you all think of the big picture here.


EvilHomer - 2016-05-04

What I'm struck by is how, in little more than a decade or so, we went from "transgender bathrooms" being a dumb joke about slippery slopes and crazy Idiocracy scenarios, to being a serious issue that Americans are actually focusing significant amounts of their time and effort on debating! Which, getting to your question, would also be my answer: we avoid crotch-patrolling by simply reminding our friends on social media that it's not a big deal either way.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

I have no idea.

Kentuckians in bars have been using each others restrooms all my life. You say the socially magical words "fuck it, I'm not waiting" and go in the other one. Works for all genders.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

I guess you could make all public restrooms single occupant.


Bobonne - 2016-05-04

You tell the people that actually think any trans women (oh wait, men pretending to be women, right?) wanting to use a bathroom are potential (nay, likely) rapists to fuck off.

And stop acting like a goddamn moron.


TheOtherCapnS - 2016-05-04

This didn't happen in SC; it happened well before HB2 was proposed.

These bills are coming from a group called The Liberty Counsel, a tax-free (because religion) hate group (as classified by SPLC) that was the legal team for that fugly county clerk who wouldn't do her job a while back. They lost that battle, so this is their new one (and obviously no conservative will denounce them because it's a social issue with an evil "other", which is their favorite kind of issue). I mean, they are literally behind it showing up in states across the country. They have drafted most of the bills and gotten state senators that live in hick districts and don't have to worry about the political repercussions to propose them. This is on the record.

As for the "potential for abuse" I just don't get it. In the vast majority of municipalities: It's already illegal to rape a woman in the women's restroom. It's already illegal to abduct a woman from the women's restroom. It's already illegal to expose yourself in a women's restroom. It's already illegal to loiter and just generally be a creep in a women's restroom. It's already possible for a man to sneak in the women's restroom and attempt any of the above. And trans people have been using their restroom of choice for decades, with no one the wiser 99% of the time.

If you see this legislation as anything other than a direct attack on trans people, you are living in a fantasy world, and you need to check out some crime statistics and stop letting news stories and other anecdotal evidence influence you. I mean influence you at all. It's bullshit. It rarely happens. Rapists are not dudes dressed like the Hamburgler lurking in parks or dudes dressed up like ladies; they look like people you know most of the time, because they are.


posertom - 2016-05-04

It. Doesn't. Matter.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

To be fair, he did ask for pragmatic solutions.

I think single occupant restrooms (with changing stations obviously) would work with the bigots to secure trans people safety. The states that have laws against wrong gender bathroom use have to be enforced, which means cops interacting with trans people, which means statistically higher violence than everyone not black. By removing the need to police bathrooms, you save lives. By having single occupant bathrooms already, you make further legislation to police bathroom use look like a waste of money and time, so you remove a vector for the expression of legislative bigotry. It will also put to bed the fears of shared bathrooms generally spread around the population for various reasons from tiny pee pee to being assaulted in a public restroom (same gender restroom violence is being completely ignored here).

You wont just get people to knock it off without a long investment of time, if at all. That is a really big if and seldom happens historically.
You wont get people to stop legislating from bigotry without a long investment of time, if at all. An even bigger if, since there has never been a single existing government where this didn't happen. Not even weak inductive evidence for the possible existence of a system without this kind of thing happening.

Human nature must be taken into account or it fails out of the gate.


bawbag - 2016-05-04

Stars for Bobonne. 100% agreed.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

It could also prevent things like this :
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-bradley-t arget-transgender-restroom-disturbance-20160502-story.html

If a Jesus dude is complaining about a restroom, some may try and intentionally get them killed for it, which is also stupid shitty. We're the species that send SWAT teams out over video games.

Human nature knows no moral high ground.


baleen - 2016-05-04

Once I was at work in and two dudes came into the work bathroom and started jerking off.
I felt so helpless.

I wish the bathroom police were around then.

Btw I am a girl 30% of the time and I need you to respect that. Also I am trying to decolonize science fiction and comic books with mainly trans characters so if you know anybody who can get be an agent please let me know.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

Do you have a portfolio?


That guy - 2016-05-04

I did ask for people's pragmatic thoughts on how to go forward. This question is not going away this decade.

>>Bobonne
>>You tell the people that actually think any trans women
>>(oh wait, men pretending to be women, right?) wanting
>>to use a bathroom are potential (nay, likely) rapists to
>>fuck off.

>>And stop acting like a goddamn moron.

This is a (willful?) misinterpretation of what I was asking, or a logical fallacy, or willful head-in-the-sand ideology, or some combination thereof.

I was trying to say that there will be a case of something at some point and it will be in the media. I'm also saying that we have no idea what the overall potential for criminal abuse is. It could be zero; it could be marginally worse in a way that the media news-cycles as if it's an epidemic; it could be significantly worse.

By 'potential for abuse' I do mean a criminal dressed up as a trans or a trans who is also a criminal. Let me be really, really specific here about 2 things:
1) *Haters using the potential for crime as an excuse to push hate* is very different from *whether it is or isn't going to change the rate of crime in restrooms*.
2) Nobody tell me that 0.00% of people in any given group are criminals, whether that group is transsexuals or anyone else. That's nonsense.
(I am NOT saying that *any* cause for alarm should be enough alarm to matter)

I don't think that it's really the same difference as "guy sneaking into bathroom" in terms of the practical questions.

I think there will be a slightly higher incidence of male criminals dressing up trans and perpetrating crime in women's restrooms, with a lower chance of being stopped beforehand or afterward, or being caught. It'll be minimal but the media will run with like crazy. It won't be zero. That's what I think will actually happen, and I don't have a solution.

It seems that one very semi-demi-partial solution is to have some single-user bathrooms in as many locations as possible, which are a practical solution to a few matters, as memedumpster mentioned. One of the great things about having a few of those is for moms or dads with opposite-sex kids who are too old to need a parent, but too young to go by themselves. (I'm sure this must happen a lot)

Ok, please proceed in reading between the lines and accusing me of shit. thx


Bobonne - 2016-05-04

By conceding to the other side that their position of 'men totally pretend to be women to infiltrate bathrooms and changing rooms so they can rape the women and girls using them' actually has even a shred of merit, you implicitly concede their implied point that all trans women are just mentally ill men in drag that are also sexual deviants who would love to rape the real women (and also the little girls! think of the children!) for kicks.

Which is why trans women (and I keep using 'women' because these people don't even acknowledge that trans men exist) don't deserve rights. Because they've proven themselves to be a bunch of mentally ill threats to society by their very existence, and the only place they belong is in a mental hospital (at best).

This is a concerted effort to make trans people afraid to set foot in public, let alone in government buildings. It's a terror campaign, aimed directly at trans people in one way and at creating fear and mistrust in the non-trans public in another.

This is why you don't treat this shit with the respect it doesn't deserve, because it's fucking bullshit without a hint of evidence, designed coldbloodedly to hurt a minority and spread bigotry.

As for trans people having their own special bathrooms? Well, why not just pass a law saying we need to wear a special badge? That way, nobody can say we're trying to trick you all by pretending to be normal, right? After all, it's trannies pretending to be real women (note it's never the trans men with their luxurious beards and impressively beefy builds that these laws are saying really belong in women's bathrooms?) that's the real cause of all this strife, so if we'd just stop trying to pretend we aren't freaks, everything would be fine.

Fuck off.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

I didn't say special bathrooms, I mean everyone uses single use bathrooms. I also didn't say it was an agreement, it was working within the power they have to do nothing at all or make it worse.

And working within the actual reality of the situation isn't concession, that's just... oh shit... thanks, Obama (I kind of get it now)!

If you stood in front of the wrong restroom in America and said all the things you just typed here to a cop, you would be murdered six times over before it would happen to someone not trans.

You need to keep a cool head, declaring people on your side the enemy and throwing them to the curb is a luxury most people don't get.


EvilHomer - 2016-05-04

http://tinyurl.com/jhrwm53


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

Besides, you still loved me after I crazy ranted, so there.

:)


EvilHomer - 2016-05-04

No, that was for Bobonne, not you. Your reply was healthy and fine.


Bobonne - 2016-05-04

I'm not declaring you an enemy, I'm just pointing out that by treating the attempt to codify bigotry as 'having some valid points' that you should compromise with, you lend it legitimacy it absolutely doesnt' deserve, particularly in this situation where the whole of the laws are an attempt at terrorizing a minority into staying quiet and out of sight.

Having spent roughly fifteen years trying to educate and enlighten the people using this website and its affiliates on trans issues, only to see this fucking 'well, they have some good points' bullshit, pardon the fuck out of me if I'm a little sick and fucking tired of being polite and calm and patient.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

LOL, Homie, my reply was too. My point being we're all still going to ineptly try to help even if it pisses people off, because love.

Issues that directly impact peoples' survival are what evolution gave us emotions for, and when we're uncertain about what to do, we lovingly and affectionately debate the variables with an eye towards personal dignity and camaraderie by utilizing verbal drag out bloodsport.

Because love.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

"attempt to codify bigotry"

The bigotry is codified in legislature, not my attempt to curtail violence. I am not your enemy.
"as 'having some valid points' that"
Who are you quoting as having said 'having some valid points?' It isn't me. I am not the person who you have mocked up inside your head, I'm out here, on the other side of these words.

I just did a word search for that page, you and you alone said 'having some valid points.'

No one here is your enemy.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

Don't kid yourself though, we're still assholes who don't get it, don't feel guilty or any of that wash.

Just be prepared for us to stumblefuck noisily along, like a three legged kitten with half its brain missing. We're cute, but we drink our own piss by accident a lot.


Bobonne - 2016-05-04

And the legislation was what I was referring to with the 'codify' sentence.

I'm talking at this whole set of posts, not just you, meme. Fuck, I'm really not even angry at That Guy, despite his leanings in the past, I'm fairly sure he's actually a reasonably decent human being.

It's just, this video being the big thing that gets attention on these laws and this situation as an example of why the police shouldn't be used as the pee police...and it only gets as much attention as it does because it happened to a (god, I hate to do this, it attracts such shit) cis woman. It's like the front page during the civil rights movement being 'white man standing near negroes bitten by police dogs'. Still an injustice that needs covering, still an example of why the institutional enforcement of bigotry is wrong, but...you know?

And the reason I'm ticked off about the 'well, we should switch to single occupancy bathrooms for everyone' bit is because, while it's NOT A BAD IDEA, and one that's been floated around for years within discussions on the trans community and their bathroom harrassments, and even more once these legislations came into effect, it's just...it's not going to happen. Not anywhere that already has multi-stall/urinal bathrooms. So it's far from being an effective solution to what wasn't really a problem in the first place save for bigotry (of the people that call the cops and the cops that'd come and the employers that'd fire you over it for the past sixty years or so before this legislation even existed), and if there are multi-use bathrooms that everyone else uses and then single-occupancy bathrooms that only a certain minority uses (not including handicapped access here)...well, what can be intended as a safety measure for said minority can also act as a badge of identification/outing, too.

Because part of larger issue here is the identification and public outing of trans people, where it be on the hunch of some bigot that then calls the cops/security, or the self-selection if it seems that's the only safe place to use the restroom...it's part of the bigger purpose of these bills, which is 'you are not safe' and 'you don't get to hide what you are'. And I use the word 'hide' as originating from the people pushing this shit, not as an inherently accurate descriptor.

It's just a neverending thing, you know? Frankly, I'm fairly sure the only reason I don't personally have any really ugly bathroom confrontation stories of my own is due to the fact that I'm mostly a shut-in, so I'm not out in public very often, I keep my head down (literally and figuratively) rather than daring to stand in front of the sink/mirror for more than 20 seconds then quickly leaving, and maybe a measure of Canadian public politeness bubble, which translates mostly to 'mind your own business' when it comes to public bathroom behavior.


Bobonne - 2016-05-04

It was kind of inevitable that the attempts to push this sort of legislation for decades would finally succeed, especially now that gay rights are somewhat more concretely enshrined on a federal level, and the hot new culture war target had to be found. We've been expecting this to eventually happen for the last few years in particular. Ideally, with it then being struck down and leading to, just maybe, some form of concrete protections for trans people, though none of us are really under the illusion it'll be quick or easy.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

Kentucky is presently doing its "Louisville vs. the State" thing with trans issues. A lot of school districts put in trans protection policies and the Republican Senate and Democrat House have been round and round about it ever since. Anti LGBT bills fail. LGBT protection bills fail. Louisville pretends the rest of Kentucky doesn't exist, as do we all.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

There are so many unisex bathrooms here that I think I had some confirmation bias, I assumed if Kentucky did something, the rest of the nation had long since done it and forgot about it.


Oscar Wildcat - 2016-05-04

Surely as a woman, Bobonne, you can appreciate the fear and mistrust other women have when what they see is a man dressed as a woman comes into the ladies room? As you say, there is a double standard here in that nobody cares if women, women dressed as men, or wild jaguars enter the men's room. Men don't feel threatened in the same way as women. Meme made the point well, consider how many gay men you know have had at least one experience of sex in the men's room. But who is complaining?

I have only encountered this issue once: attending a sprawling Bowie retrospective at the Museum of TV and Radio in midtown Manhattan. In some parts of the building there were families with kids checking out old Lassie reruns. Imagine their surprise when the place filled with cats of every stripe and persuasion. Intermission came and we all filed out to the lobby to associate and defecate. Complaints were lodged, the guards were called, and there was a little back and forth until it became clear how absurd the situation was. The guards then retreated and we all had a wonderful time. But I understand overwhelming force is rarely an option. Just thought you'd like to hear a victory story for a change, you sound pretty wound up.


Void 71 - 2016-05-05

I don't keep up with this bathroom shit, but I would think that feminists would be wary of letting the rape-culture-perpetuating patriarchy into their most holy of sanctums.


Bobonne - 2016-05-05

Oscar, it's tough to answer that question...for various reasons. My answer would be no, given that the 'men dressed as women' tend to already be well into their hormone regimen and want no trouble, they're just there to use the facilities and leave again. So, at most, what they're generally going to see is, maybe, a somewhat tall woman with a potentially heavyset build that comes in, enters a stall, exits it, washes their hands, maybe checks up their makeup, and leaves.

Despite what a great deal of fiction tells you, trans women don't tend to have heavy five o'clock shadows, chest hair flowing out of their cleavage, and a rapist's leer targeted at everyone in their vicinity. They tend to look like women that might have some masculine traits they can't get rid of, like broad shoulders and narrow hips.

Now, I'm aware that some women tend to be highly sensitive to perceived threats from men in their vicinity, often with good reasons from their past experiences, and they can be on a somewhat hair trigger. But, again, the number of trans women that look like 'men dressed as a woman' THAT WOULD BE USING A WOMEN'S BATHROOM AT THE TIME are...small. Those that have the misfortune to have trouble passing, no matter what they've done, do exist, of course...and they tend to be the trans women either most frightened of everyone else or the ones that (particularly if they're older and have experience with this shit) don't give a fuck, and are there to use the bathroom, wash their hands, and leave.

So the former of the two would likely be acting quite furtive, seeking out another washroom if the one they're aiming for is full and will require waiting in line, then getting in, doing their business, washing their hands as fast as they can, and then leaving, not giving any "triggered" women time to be offended by their existence, while the latter would likely have a similar minimalist agenda, but wouldn't quite so much look like they're trying to escape as not giving a crap about the expected feminine rituals within the bathroom and simply coming and going without making a fuss, given that it's a perfectly normal thing to do, which has a surprising calming effect at times.

Also, I'm not an asshole, which a lot of the women that claim they have a real problem with 'men dressed as women' in the women's bathroom tend to have as a personality flaw, so it's tough for me to put myself into their shoes. Given that I know that men don't actually dress as women to sneak into women's bathrooms and commit various crimes, I wouldn't be particularly suspicious of a somewhat masculine-seeming woman making use of one to empty their bladder or their bowels...assuming they close the stall door and don't make a big deal out of it, of course.


That guy - 2016-05-05

Bobonne, reply from me below.
Cheers.


duck&cover - 2016-05-04

You know what I see happening, more people just pissing and shitting in trash cans and against walls and on the ground.

Why does everything have to be a hassle? Petty, stupid assholes.


RedRust - 2016-05-04

This brings to mind the site "urinalpoop.com", which no longer exists. It was pretty funny to see pictures of doo doo caca in urinals.


EvilHomer - 2016-05-04

You know meme, I'm pretty sure the terrorists like us because the CIA and DoD have been training, funding, and motivating them for decades - but yeah, kicking lesbians out of bathrooms probably doesn't hurt, so good call on the tags.


memedumpster - 2016-05-04

Everyone has down time and needs Internet videos to watch and like on social media!


15th - 2016-05-05

There's a war on cum.


15th - 2016-05-05

*cumming


That guy - 2016-05-05

The legislation is shit!! I wasn't defending it or even playing devil's advocate on that part of this!! Let's set that aside entirely. I don't know how that became a part of this discussion!?! Holy crap.


"By conceding to the other side that their position of 'men totally pretend to be women to infiltrate bathrooms and changing rooms so they can rape the women and girls using them' actually has even a shred of merit, you implicitly concede their implied point that all trans women are just mentally ill men in drag that are also sexual deviants who would love to rape the real women (and also the little girls! think of the children!) for kicks."

Absolutely not. What I would say is that a crime isn't an excuse for sweeping generalizations without any scientific merit. And then I would follow it up by saying that we have no special reason to believe that there will be any difference, and there aren't crimes of the sort right now.
(What I am saying here on this site is different: there will be a media circus if/when something happens, and the issue won't be resolved anytime soon, because it'll be "one rotten apple ruins the whole bunch" logic from people. This is not what I want AND it's what I think will happen. ALSO, I think there will be a minimal uptick in bathroom crimes that will make the whole thing a nightmare.
I'm being a cynic, not transphobic...... unless you're defining as transphobic: I think that greater than 0% of transsexuals are criminals, just like every other group you can possibly draw a ring around)
But it absolutely does not follow that I 'implicitly concede' something. That is horsecrap. Maybe you mean it's not as rhetorically forceful as not giving them an inch?? Agreed, but that isn't my priority one here.


Bobonne, what were my leanings in the past that make you think I'm silently rooting for police to throw people out of restrooms??? Was it general shit-giving on poetv? Or something specific I said about a related issue?

Also, Bobonne, you and I could talk about 25 different, difficult things and we wouldn't have to agree on all 25 in order to understand each other, or have a fruitful conversation, would we? I understand that this particular conversation is weightier for you than it is for me, and I respect that. But certainly there are other virtues, no? I'm not a state legislator with a fixed opinion, here.

More importantly, don't shut yourself in. Get out there some times. Talk to your fellow humans. Cheers.


That guy - 2016-05-05

oh for fuck's sake, meant as reply


Bobonne - 2016-05-06

I wasn't going to post in here any further, I've already done so enough that I feel like crap, but I guess I'm obligated to do so, after your post up there.

Dude.

You've kind of got an active history of semi-regular shitposting around here in a right-wing borderline /pol/ style.

That's what I'm referring to.

Then, despite that, I go on to say you seem like a pretty decent human being.

This is the internet. How much further do I have to go into grudging lovefest mode before you realize I was saying I kind of like you, rather than the opposite?

I mean, at least you aren't a full-time disingenuous troll, or seemingly a completely genuine asshole, that puts you way up there compared to some of our peers.

That is all. Let this line of discussion rest for now, I think?


That guy - 2016-05-06

I'm not sure about right wing, but devil's advocate shit-posting, yes. And I'm a partial asshole, yes.

Fair is fair.


chumbucket - 2016-05-05

The entire country is getting pulled back to the fifth grade.


ADnova - 2016-05-05

Paul Blart: Toilet Cop


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