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Comment count is 29
Xenocide - 2017-02-12

Ha ha, remember when "are Nazis the baddies?" was a question people only asked ironically.


Monkey Napoleon - 2017-02-12

No, because that was never true.

I do remember a time when you actually had to be a nazi to be called one though.

Also, is it possible this wasn't on here already?


Accidie - 2017-02-12

I'm with monkey nap. We're at a point where ya'll would probably beat 2 British dudes wearing costumes to death before realizing they weren't actual Nazis.


Caminante Nocturno - 2017-02-12

I remember when you weren't the liberal equivalent of a Fox News viewer.


StanleyPain - 2017-02-12

Aw, Monkey is a snowflake.....


Monkey Napoleon - 2017-02-12

I think you meant to call me a Nazi.


exy - 2017-02-12

*Woosh*, M & A.


SolRo - 2017-02-12

Alt-nazi sound more PC to you, monkey?


Accidie - 2017-02-12

It's an odd time to be alive.


simon666 - 2017-02-12

I titled the video as I did only for fun, given the spirited discussions we were all having, but if some of you are wanting to continue it based on this video, here is my framework for discussion:

1. The video depicts a scene where Nazi SS soldiers go through a period of reflection and realize they've gotten it wrong--we can set aside the comedy aspect. The previous question under discussion was around the ethics of punching Nazis *in virtue of* being a Nazi. Given this alternative scenario of reflective Nazis who can see the wrongs of their ways, ought they be the kind of Nazis who get punched?

1.1 What does punching these kind of Nazis achieve?
1.2 Is it a mere expressive act for the benefit of the puncher?
1.3 Does it make these otherwise reflective Nazis who would be presumably become allies, not want to join your side?
1.4 If punching the reflective Nazis is not of value or utility, and given that we don't know who the reflective Nazis are in some prima facie sense, by what mechanism does one decide to punch some Nazis and not others?
1.5 Is it morally wrong to punch or otherwise act violently towards those who would change and repent, assuming they had not acted violently towards anyone themselves?

2. For those who advocated punching Nazis full stop, should all fiction depictions of Nazis include the depiction of being punched? Why? What is the link, if any, between the motivations for punch real life Nazis and fictional Nazis?

2.1 Are the motivations for punching real life Nazis the same for depicting punching fictional Nazis or are the motivations different and just happen to have a prima facie similar outcome?

2.1 If punching fictional Nazis is rhetorically useful in that it sends some kind of message (to those sympathetic to Nazis and to those who dislike Nazis), then does this message necessarily get sent when punching real life Nazis?


3. I don't really give a shit. I enumerated thisfor analytical practice. Fart.


Oscar Wildcat - 2017-02-12

Everyone knows who the good guys are: they're the ones that win. I know this from reading history, which records who wins and who loses. Good guys and bad guys, respectively.

Stars for Simon's 200 proof EvilHomer bait. If he's lurking, that will surely bring him out of the ventilator shafts.


Xenocide - 2017-02-12

Just to recap, we've reached the stage now where one Nazi got punched three weeks ago, and these guys are still so sputteringly furious about it that they're accusing me of murdering completely imaginary British people.

Thank goodness no one hit Spencer hard enough to leave a permanent mark or anything. You'd probably be petitioning Trump right now for a national monument in his honor. NEVER FROG-ET.



As for whether punching Nazis does any good, here's something people seem to have overlooked: amid all this debate over whether it's okay to punch a Nazi, the implicit agreement among all parties has been that the man who got punched IS a Nazi. And he has spent years working very hard to convince people that he's not.

A month ago Spencer was famous for the "Heil Trump" video where he's doing Hitler salutes and people STILL debated whether he was a Nazi. But now there's no debate. Absolutely everyone knows Spencer as "that Nazi who got punched." And given that he was defensively insisting that he wasn't a Nazi literally thirty seconds before the punch happened, that's definitely not something he wanted.

He's smart enough to know that his political future hinged on his ability to convince the general public that he wasn't what he appeared to be. And one punch ruined that prospect forever. Richard Spencer isn't a rising star anymore, he's a widely-derided meme (plus, it's also not great for the president when people can say, "here's video of that guy who we all agree is a Nazi, enthusiastically cheering for Trump.")

"Oh, but people might feel sorry for him now, and start to agree with him!" No. Pity and agreement are two different things. If all it takes is a video of a punch to make you agree that North America needs to be violently purged of all non-whites, you were probably pretty far gone already.

Fascists depend on this double standard, where they can be as violent as they like, but anyone who fights back is condemned as dangerous or "just as bad" no matter how minimal their resistance is. One side punched a guy; the other side is carrying out mass shootings in Mosques. Insisting that these groups are morally equivalent is like page one of the classic fascism playbook.


Bort - 2017-02-12

Personally I don't believe in punching Nazis simply because they have bad ideas in their heads, though at such point as it starts moving into action, punching seems increasingly appropriate.

However, it's important to oppose their being normalized as just another piece of the American landscape. Make sure they know they are not accepted, that they are on the wrong side of history and human decency, that they are reviled for who they choose to be. Fists aren't required for that.

As for Mitchell and Webb, I would give them piggyback rides all day long if they wanted.


Accidie - 2017-02-12

You see? Look at yourselves having a fucking cow! sheesh


Monkey Napoleon - 2017-02-12

Yes, I am the one who keeps bringing it up and freaking out about it, posting submissions just for the sake of keeping it going, and posting huge walls of text clarifying the exact justifications why I think it's ok to assault certain people.

NAZIS ARE NOT OBJECTING YOUR VIEWS HERE. IT'S REGULAR LIBERALS WHO THINK YOU'VE LOST YOUR FUCKING MINDS.


SolRo - 2017-02-12

The state of being a nazi deserves a punch.

It doesn't matter how nicely it acts or how cutesy it talks. It's a nazi, it gets punched.


I don't get what is so hard to understand about this basic concept.


Monkey Napoleon - 2017-02-12

They aren't Nazi's. They're bad people with shitty ideas.

Using the spectre of the holocaust to justify your assblasted temper tantrum makes you a shitty garbage person, even if who you're targeting is also a shitty garbage person.

I don't get what is so hard to understand about this basic concept.


simon666 - 2017-02-12

F grades for everyone who did not explain their position within the framework provided. Very disappointed in all of you.


SolRo - 2017-02-12

You think nazis were just born in hugo boss uniforms, that they just always were nazis?

There was a point where they were good people, then became bad people, then bad people with shitty ideas, and because no one punched them, they eventually started killing people that didn't match their idea of racial purity.

(AND I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT NAZI DOESNT JUST MEAN "WANTS TO KILL JEWS", THEY KILLED ANYONE THEY THOUGHT WAS AN INFERIOR, MUCH LIKE THE ALT-NAZIS WANT TO NOW)


teethsalad - 2017-02-13

if you advocate eugenics and racial segregation and a strong authoritarian government w/ ethnic nationalist identity, people are going to call you a nazi

if you organize a rally where you say "heil trump" and openly sieg-heil with your base, hey, people might start getting the idea you're a nazi

don't want people to call you a nazi? simple! don't subscribe to nazi ideology! don't promote concepts that align with national socialism!

how can you say they're not nazis - do they all have to put on armbands and grow a little hitler mustache before we can officially call them that? what more do you need?

and i also suggest you go down to your local VA and tell all the WWII vets what huge dickheads and "garbage people" they all were for not sitting down and respecting the nazis right to dominate, murder and enslave all non-aryan peoples. it's too bad we didn't have the internet back then, i'm sure all this false equivalence and hand-wringing from the hikkokomori caucus would have surely solved the problem


Monkey Napoleon - 2017-02-13

To be a Nazi, you have to do what the Nazis did, full stop.

I suggest you talk to some holocaust survivors and tell them you think some racist fuckhead on twitter who's done nothing but march around in a sad little group of 100 people tops and yell shit is exactly the same as a Nazi.


simon666 - 2017-02-13

Lots of metaphysical confusion here on the ontology of Nazis. Y'all might do better if you start working out whether to be a Nazi one must:

a) hold certain beliefs and what these beliefs are;
b) perform certain actions;
c) self identify as a Nazi;
d) neither a, b, or c, but some moral equivalent.

Extra credit for an answer. Otherwise F grades (or punches, if that is your preference) for not categorizing your thinking in a way you might otherwise.


somedongus - 2017-02-12

I mean, yes?


cognitivedissonance - 2017-02-12

Punch every Nazi,
Reject every meme,
Brick every Starbucks
Till you find your dreeeeeeeeeam


Ninehells - 2017-02-12

These stars. Take them.


William Burns - 2017-02-12

Until American nazis begin marching under the banner of a rat's anus, I think I'll stick with a Punch Nazi Faces doctrine.


Rodents of Unusual Size - 2017-02-16

For you


SolRo - 2017-02-12

Would


John Holmes Motherfucker - 2017-02-13

If its hypocrisy to oppose violence as a tactic, yet laugh my ass off at this unctuous piece of shit getting coldcocked in the middle of discussing Pepe the frog on camera (my favorite part) well, fuck it, I'm a hypocrite.

It's wrong to punch people. There are people who deserve to be punchedtrueI hold both of these statements to be true.


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