In fact, I'd bet that Trump coming to an untimely end would be a huge win for the Trump administration and the extreme wing of the GOP in general - it would be a huge opening for radical, possibly terminal, consolidation of executive and military power, and deliver them the kind of terrified, confused citizenry that are ripe for an ACTUAL totalitarian regime. It is just about the worst case scenario I can think of.

Trump will choke on a KFC chicken bone before anyone ever gets to him. Of course, Bannon will claim the chicken bone to have connections to Islam, Planned Parenthood, and the EPA.

That's true too, even if he just has an unfortunate accident or health crisis that would be enough because there are plenty of people out there ready to be convinced that it was foul play.

Hell, I live in quite possibly the bluest city in the country and I've met people who absolutely believe Breitbart was a freedom fighter who was assassinated by the CIA/NSA/FBI to silence him. He is their Che Guevara.

I put the odds at 10:1 it's at the hands of their own constituents... they're among the ones who will be hurt most and first by this administrations policies...

Counter-point It won't be because they'll recognize they're hurt by the policies, they elected and adore a man who is so flippant with his wealth he shits In a gold toilet. The most likely person crazy enough to take out a Republican is gonna do it because they think he's a RINO who's holding their dear leader back.

I know you guys are having fun imagining this, but pretty sure the right wing nutters are going to kill a lot of people they currently see as 'the enemy' (see Mexicans, gays, abortion providers, union members, environmentalists, etc) long before they even consider any of their god-chosen capitalist saviors as a target

"I know you guys are having fun imagining this"

You obviously didn't actually read a word I said.

I was having a little fun, but fun like, making it to the toilet when you have runs in time fun, not fun fun.

Bac, in my hypothetical I didn't mean to say it would happen because they REALIZED they were hurt by his policies, just that the effects of his policies will put them in an even more perilous, desperate situation than they are now, and that kind of pressure is what makes people resort to something like that.

I think being fucked over by leadership who is "one of your own" in some way is an ugly but necessary step in social and political growth. Black folks have been fucked over by Obama after the housing crisis, women would have probably been fucked over by Clinton, and the working class white men (and women) who put him in office are getting fucked over by trump BIG LEAGUE.

This is a really dangerous, unnecessary way for it to go own, and the long term implications for all of us are awful, but at least maybe a statistically significant number of them won't fall for the next right wing, pseudopopulist demagogue who preys on them.

Sadly, what the modern republican party most resembles is a cult, very much like Scientology or Unification Church. Their obedience and loyalty is measured by how much abuse they can take at the hands of the cult, so don't expect things to change for his supporters once things start cooking in earnest. If somebody offs Trump, it'll be a lone wolf/crazy person. Reagan got tagged by just that sort of person. It won't be political.

To change the dynamic, democrats need to stop with the reasoning and the technocratic solutions and start dealing with the cult as it is. Nobody left scientology because of thoughtful and fact based discussion. I'm not sure how we abduct half the country and lock them in a hotel room for a week while being deprogrammed, but something like this is going to be necessary. How do you get people out of these cults? I actually have met two people who were involved with The Two ( Bo and Peep ) and even after the mass suicide they still felt bad about leaving before the big day.

"To change the dynamic, democrats need to stop with the reasoning and the technocratic solutions and start dealing with the cult as it is."

I am skeptical that the Democrats can deprogram people away from the Republican Cult, because what holds the cult together is racism and racial resentment, and thus far nobody knows how to beat that. The core promise of the Republicans is, whatever else they do, they'll keep the Democrats from taking your hard-earned money (and you know who "you" are) and give it to those lazy undeserving people (and you certainly know who "those people" are). The Republican Party has a vast amount of latitude with their target demographic so long as they sabotage the Democrats; yeah the Republican fan base might get frustrated and angry with them sometimes, but when the alternative is those Democrats who (ostensibly) don't give a shit about white people, switching teams is unthinkable.

So what options does that leave Sane America? A more likely solution is TURNOUT: just show up on Election Day and we can knock the Republicans into oblivion. The only way that plan can fail is if the Left proves to be, I don't know, fucking retarded enough to think that withholding their votes is going to help anyone but the Republicans. But I hate to even entertain the possibility that the Left could be that phenomenally, monumentally self-destructive.

OR they could, you know, actually treat their constituents like equals and engage with them in terms of policy instead of the same brand of hollow, marketing driven rhetoric that flipped a bunch of Obama supporters, alienated a ton more, and lost the election.

A few of them finally are.

And no, I don't think anyone is going to actually off Trump and I certainly hope they don't, for reasons I've made abundantly clear.

You and yours may eventually need to consider that, just as fake news poisoned the Right, it poisoned the Left as well. The Left was all too happy to consider Obama the enemy ever since he took office and didn't immediately fix everything, and was likewise way too happy to believe and retweet every half-truth or outright lie about Hillary.

At a certain point, the electorate needs to take responsibility for their shortcomings and their bad choices. I'll give the Left this much, I don't think they're a total lost cause the way the Right is, but they need to get their heads out of their asses, like they should have years ago.

The "Left" as well as "Undecideds" or "The Fucking Lazy" need to recognize that their votes are what keeps The Dangers To Themselves And Others from taking control of the country.

Vote like your future depends on it, because it fucking does. There is no "neither" option -- you either vote for the lesser of two evils or you get the greater of two evils.

Not that I've gone over the election results in great detail, but I wonder how much of the loss was from "establishment Democrats" "betraying" anyone, and how much was from Bern victims trying to play out their self-fulfilling prophecy for Saint Sanders not getting the nomination.

I guess it bears repeating: any claim that Trump being elected is a good thing long term because letting the country burn will let you say, "Told you so!" is indistinguishable from John Galt nonsense.

that is what they call a shit eating grin.

"flipped a bunch of Obama supporters"

About this: "bunch" is an awfully qualitative and subjective term, and as such it can't be proven wrong so long as at least three people supported both Obama and Trump. There were probably at least three; I wouldn't bet against it.

But most of the evidence I've seen of Obama-to-Trump conversions is, districts that went for Obama in the past went for Trump this time around. So, suppose you're a pastor and you see three blacks in your congregation one week, and the next week you see five blacks: does it mean two white people turned black?

"Bort
At a certain point, the electorate needs to take responsibility for their shortcomings and their bad choices. "



Says someone who still defends Clinton as a candidate.

Hillary beat your boy by millions of votes, and she didn't even have to turn to smears to do so. You should be proud that your boy crafted many of the attacks that Trump went on to use.

Meanwhile, in Colorado, single payer went down to defeat, 79% - 21%. Nearly four to one against Bernie's flagship proposal. Holy shit. And that was a BLUE state. Just imagine how that would go over coast-to-coast.

... unless you think America is hankering for an atheist socialist Jew from New England who wants to raise your taxes, now THAT'S what he ought to put on his bumper stickers.

Almost as likely as a black secret muslim whose name is a portmanteau of America's worst enemies. At least, that was the argument I made eight years ago when you were trying to convince us about this Barack Obama fellow and I Hillary. You were right then. Now you were wrong. At some point, we need to move forward here Bort. She lost. To Donald Trump. Doesn't this tell you something?

A better Hillary would have looked at that defeat, realized her time had passed, and promoted her daughter, who I think actually could have taken on Trump and won. But she didn't. Her ambition, although laudible, was her undoing, and ours as well.

This year, if the contest had been between Obama and Hillary, I would have supported Obama. But this year was between Hillary and a New England hippie who wants to raise your taxes and whose main proposal failed in his own state. Bernie was a losing proposition all along. Just because much of the Left couldn't see through the hype doesn't mean he was a shoe-in.

Nevertheless I would have given him my full support in the general election, because the alternative was still Trump and that remains an intolerable proposition. And that's what this is really about. However low your opinion of Hillary, my opinion of Bernie is far far lower, and still I would have voted for him because that would be my duty as a citizen. But people who let Trump into office because they disagree with Republican policies but they don't like BEELZEBITCH ... ? They have earned every last harmful policy that Trump can impose upon them.

Bort, serious question, are you a Libertarian?