Pence is the kind of guy who'd smile piously as he shivved your grandmother.

Trump is the Beast. Pence is the Smiler.

It's tribalism mixed with a "get rich quick" mentality. Impeachment is the quickest way for one tribe to "win".

(It isn't really but they see it as some sort of victory even if it changes nothing and may result in an even worse outcome)

You guys need to watch the video again.

The means by which Trump became President in spite of a solid loss of the popular vote are legitimate and constitutional, but so is impeachment. This is what it's for.

It's not a party thing. The man is dangerously incompetent.

I've seen it as a party thing, from up here. Clinton gets elected, the Republicans start trying to impeach him.

G. W. Bush gets elected, the Democrats make noise about impeaching him for war crimes.

Obama gets elected, the Republicans start making noise about impeaching him for being the wrong colour (or something to do with imaginary pedophiles in the non-existent basement of a pizza joint).

Trump gets elected, the Democrats start talking impeachment.

Absolutely this is the CORRECT usage of impeachment, the guy is not only incompetent, he's delusional. And his supporters are just as delusional.

What I'm saying is that impeachment talk loses its potency when every President receives impeachment talk (whether justified or not).

The US has become so hyper-partisan that the electoral college representatives closed their eyes to his obvious incompetence and put him in office anyway. And his party is willing to let the country crash and burn just so they can stay "in power". And his supporters will happily pour gasoline over themselves and light the fucking torch if they think it will piss off some Liberals somewhere.

You can take Trump out but the problem is still there. Democrats need to hold their noses and vote to offset the stupid fuckers voting against everyone's best interests.

>>>You can take Trump out but the problem is still there.

No, that's a different problem. That's the long term problem. That's the problem that gave us this problem. The problem is THIS DANGEROUS MAN. Impeachment is a way of putting pressure on the Republicans. It's a way of making Trump the issue in 2018.

>>>The US has become so hyper-partisan that the electoral college representatives closed their eyes to his obvious incompetence and put him in office anyway.

Let's tell the truth, just this once. It's THE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BECOME HYPER PARTISAN, NOT THE US. Over the last 25 years or so, the Republicans have developed their own media, and consequently, their own reality. People who compare Trump to Hitler are overstating the case. People who compare Fox News to Goebbels are right on the nose. When you see these people talk about "LIBERALS", imagine the same statement , but substitute the word "JEWS". Most of the time, it works.

I don't want to take away anyone's joy, except to the extent that they derive joy from the pain of others. There's a whole lot of that going around.

Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. Of course the opposing party will be instigating it.

Historically, the "war of impeachments" started with Nixon. Republicans never forgave Democrats for this, hence the endless impeachment proceedings. As you say, it diminishes the force of the process, which is a good outcome if you think your own party will be abusing it's power when in office.

A better political solution would be for his cabinet to invoke the 25th amendment and replace him. There is genuine fear among Republican elites that the base will turn against them, so I don't see much possibility there, but at least it's technically possible. Impeachment is a total nonstarter until the D's take a majority position in both the House and Senate.

(Of course, these days, you don't always have to make the substitution. Sometimes they just start out with "Jews".

A few years ago, I discovered a documentary on YOUTUBE by a New York Jew about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I tried to look it up again, and HOLY FUCKING SHIT, in a few years, YOUTUBE has been glutted with videos about PEZ! And almost none of it is critical of this long-debunked historical fraud. And the comments, of course, are horrifying.)

I've been watching the approvals ratings on a daily basis. They usually comfort me.

What the news sources are saying (and lately, this includes Fox News) is that Trump's base is eroding. According to one poll, and this sounds too good to be true, in the last month, Trump's approval rating AMONG WHITE MALES WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE has gone from the mid sixties to the high forties. That's in one week. I'll see if I can find that one.

Overall approval ratings tend to be in the low 40s to the mid 30s. It's been posited that, for a Republican congress, the tipping point will be at 30 per cent overall. That's a long way to go, but he's moving in the right direction.

My question is what would the specific reason for impeachment be? Obstruction of justice? Would that be enough for impeachment?

Again, it's a political process, not a legal one. He could be impeached for any number of things. Violating the emoluments clause for example. Clinton was under threat because he lied about having consensual sex with an adult woman. You don't need a law, you need the votes.

As Oscar says, the 25th is probably the best option. He is not competent to lead the country.

I imagine what will happen is charges will be laid and once it becomes clear that heads are going to roll, the Republican party will shift over to "no true scotsman" like they did with G.W. Bush and continue subverting the democratic process to ensure they retain control in the future.

JHM, yeah obviously it's the Republicans, they have been building this since Nixon at the very least. I'd like to point out that Democrats can also be hyper-partisan but uh they kind of have good reason to be.

(Any Republican who says this isn't the Republican party -- yeah it is, by definition. Trump was chosen by a majority to represent the Republican party and therefore he IS Republicanism. If you aren't willing to leave the Republican party and vote Democratic then clearly you are also OK with it.)

The stupid partisanship mainly rests on the Republikkkans. For example, Republikkkans were opposed to bombing Syria when Obama was president, but support it now that Trump is president, while Democrat feelings on the issue stayed the same.

All it takes is either a crash in the stock market.

Of course, if the stock market is being artificially inflated by Russian hackers as well... cui bono?

if you get joy from a trump presidency you deserve any and all bad things that happen to you

Invoking the 25th amendment based on an in absentia psychological diagnosis would be an extremely dangerous precedent to set. in the long term, possibly more dangerous than the Trump administration itself.

I don't think it needs to be a psychological diagnosis. The founding fathers didn't have mini mental status exams back then. I think he can just be declared temperamentally unfit to discharge the duties of the office.

But it would still be a pretty dangerous precedent given the state of American politics. What's to stop one party from declaring opposing viewpoints a mental illness?

Really this was the whole purpose behind the electoral college -- to prevent the voters from electing an unqualified buffoon. It failed miserably.

>>The founding fathers didn't have mini mental status exams back then.

The 25th amendment was ratified in 1965, so you can presume a modern psychological perspective.

>>>Historically, the "war of impeachments" started with Nixon. Republicans never forgave Democrats for this, hence the endless impeachment proceedings.

Doesn't that say it all? They never forgave the Democrats for the consequences of Nixon's crimes. Nixon's crimes themselves were all about vengeance, screwing his political enemies in the course of an election that he would have won handily.

I first got into politics with Bush Sr. and started following it for serials when Dubya came along, here is what I noticed :

1.) Everyone of the opposite party immediately screams impeachment.
2.) They then scream rights stealing fascist.
3.) They then scream that the president is a new emperor and will defy stepping down from office, which will require war.
4.) They then turn right around and elect the same kind of person.

That being said, Trump is quite a bit different and quite a bit more dangerous to the USA itself, but not so much so that it's worth humoring the nonstop culture of professional victims and wolf cryers. Basically, I have way more faith in Federal law enforcement to sort this out than anyone else, who will just say the same shit no matter what.

Personally, I think every single president should be scrutinized by Trump, but partisans want their fascist leaders and their holy war against fascism too, making them worthless to an actual good future.

In the mean time, cops are still committing genocide in line with article 2 of the UN convention on genocide, and both partisan sides approve of it with a big grin and their hands on their cocks.

Anyone white and smug enough to say they don't personally deserve Trump as president, deserves him for 8 years.

Meant to say "scrutinized LIKE Trump" in the above. Trump is actually biologically incapable of engaging in an act of scrutiny.

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Angry Pumpkin

(hehe)

Does Kombucha count as tea?

No.