Hear, hear!

RICO seems to only be enforced if you make money from it. Doctor killers are in it for the Glory of God, not money.

Crap! Wrong reply link!

Dear Sir/Madam,

NOBODY IS "FOR" LATE TERM ABORTION. Late term abortions are used only in the most medically dire cases, like, say, the baby is already fucking dead or won't last more than a few hours outside the womb, and the process of delivering said baby is likely to kill the mother-to-be as well.

The abortions Tiller performed were basically surgeries - under Kansas state law, *two* physicians have to approve the procedure before it can be carried out. This is not something people do on a whim, these are generally wanted and even planned pregnancies that went wrong, and the best (sometimes only) option for the health of the mother. It's a terrible, terrible choice to make, but it's a choice that should be available to every woman, without judgment, without reprisal, and without fear.

This is the kind of shit that makes me want to go to medical school *just* so I can move to Kansas or South Dakota or some other god-forsaken state and open up shop. Motherfuck these assholes and the horses they rode in on.

Adham Nu'man, can we make amputations illegal while we're at it?

After all, God intended for us to have 2 arms & 2 legs...

This. So very much this.

I refuse to entertain the term "pro-life" for the same reason. Who the fuck is anti-life? You're either pro-choice, or anti-choice. You can't pick a side in a politically charged debate and name your side "pro-kitten" to insinuate that your opponents eat live kittens for breakfast.

For the sake of argument I often liken carrying a baby to term and giving birth to donating a kidney: there is a risk to one's health, time lost to recovery, and a significant financial cost, in exchange for a life. If you were in a position to save someone's life by donating a kidney, and you were the only person who could do it, would you? Probably, yeah.

Should you be required to by law? FUCK NO.

To represent late term abortions, imagine that donating said kidney would probably kill you in the process, and/or that the recipient would die anyway, kidney or no kidney. Would you still donate? FUCK NO.

Should you be required to by law? DOUBLE FUCK NO.

Should you kill shoot the doctor while he's at church or blow up the hospital? TRIPLE FUCK NO.

It's by no means a perfect comparison, but it's one angle to look at the issue. Donating organs to save lives isn't required by law. Hell, even donating blood is optional! Why should carrying a baby to term and giving birth be required by law?

Nobody wants any of these scenarios to happen. None of these decisions make anyone happy, one way or the other. Regardless, these situations DO happen and these decisions MUST be made.

For this video and for Hooper X.

I wonder if it's ever occurred to these nutjobs that if those who want to keep abortion legal were, indeed, "anti-life," then there would be mass rallies at hospitals that had any dealings with obstetrics. You'd have leaflets telling Lamas class attendees where they could go to have their fetuses removed. And you'd have at least one madman (not related to anyone involved) shooting up a delivery room.

But that requires thought, and since I very much doubt that half of these people have even read the Bible all the way through, I'm not holding my breath.

WHY WOMEN HAVE ABORTIONS
Source: 1987 survey of 1900 abortion patients
Each woman was allowed to cite more than one reason

76 Concern about how having a baby could change her life
68 Can't afford a baby now
51 Problems with relationship or desire to avoid single parenthood
31 Not ready for responsibility
31 Doesn't want others to know she has had sex or is pregnant
30 Not mature enough, or is too young to have a child
26 Has all the children she wanted, or has all grown-up children
23 Husband or partner wants her to have abortion
13 Fetus has possible health problem
7 Woman has health problem
7 Woman's parents want her to have abortion
1 Woman was victim of rape or incest
6 Other

Percentage of women who reported that various reasons
contributed to their having a late abortion and who cited specific
reasons as accounting for the longest delay

71% 31% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48 27 Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33 14 Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24 9 Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8 4 Woman waited for her realtionship to change
8 2 Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6 1 Something changed after woman became pregnant
6

0 Adham Nu'man had sex with them

All the reasons you cited in your posts above are valid reasons to have a late term abortion, but "Late term abortions are used ONLY in the most medically dire cases" is unfortunately not true.
If you waited 8 months, then your boyfriend Bubba left you and you figure your image of a perfect happy home is now gone and don't want the kid anymore, and the pregnancy is perfectly viable, give birth and give the kid up for adoption.

Gee, let's look at the top three reasons women said they had a late term abortion when asked, in 1987, in a survey that you found on the interbutts somewhere:

#1: Misjudged gestation/didn't know they were pregnant: Okay, fine.
#2: Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion - THIS IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM.
#3: Afraid to tell people - JESUS FUCK I WONDER WHY.

I could go into more detail about how I'd really like to know who carried out the survey, how they implemented it, and what the actual survey instrument looked like, seeing as how research methodology and the flaws therein is actually an interest of mine, but I'll just say that a lot of shit has changed in 20 years, chief.

In addition to Hooper nailing it on the head again, a friend pointed out to me that the survey Adham quoted considers "late term" to mean 16+ weeks. The provider that Tiller worked for (Women's Health Care Services) defined "late term" as AFTER 21 weeks.

The difference in the number of abortions and the reasons for seeking the procedure between 16+ weeks and 21+ weeks will be significantly different.

Remember, even if it's a flipper baby, it's still one of GOD'S flipper babies, unless that flipper baby commits a crime in Texas, at which point it can fry.

I find Adham's survey work interesting.
However, I doubt that the survey included options like
"My father raped me"
"My uncle raped me"
"My brother raped me"
"I'm 12 and my father, the baby's daddy, wouldn't let me"

etc etc

Unless you are, or will ever be in the position that you might need to make these decisions, shut the fuck up and stay the fuck away from my uterus.

And no, I'm not "anti-life." I'm "pro-choice."

No, to be fair, the 23 year old survey that definitely still explains everything going through womens' minds nowadays and in the same circumstances and that, no doubt, used perfectly valid and statistically useful methods did include incest. Who performed the survey? Under what circumstances? Where did you find it? C'mon, man, you're not dealing with a bunch of fatuous high school students here, though you just might be one.

Camonk: http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0543.htm

TeenerTot, "1% Woman was victim of rape or incest"

Just read before hyperventilating. And don't worry, I'm not going anywhere near your uterus.

Once again, 20 weeks (or even 16 for that matter) are more than enough time to realize you are pregnant ("gee, I haven't menstruated in 3 months, something odd might be going on") and decide if you want to have the child or not. If you are a minor I can understand things like external pressure and fear might work against you (especially if you are a victim of abuse) and that is why I agree the option should be available to such cases.

The median time for American women to suspecting pregnancy is 33 days after their last period; the median time for confirming after suspecting is only 4 days. [http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/10/17/Contraception74-4-334_F iner.pdf] That's already 5 weeks gone by. Add in the median week it takes to arrange for and obtain the actual abortion and we're looking at up to 6 weeks or more, MEDIAN.

Now imagine the exceptions, those in the fraction of the smallest percentages, those who have had compound delays for various reasons. In the U.S., abortions between 16 to 21 weeks account for only 3.5% of abortions; after 21 weeks (again, this is how Tiller's organization defined "late term"), the figure drops off to only 1.1%. [http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html] Of those tiny fractions, many/most women in the surveys you posted clearly cited MULTIPLE causes for delay.

Of those tiny fractions of tiny fractions, no doubt SOMEONE is being an irresponsible ass - that's just people for you. But they're the exceptions to the exceptions to the exceptions, NOT the rule. Being "against late-term abortions" is denying a right to everyone JUST to spite those incredibly rare few who are being truly irresponsible. That is truly heartless and vindictive.

Allright you talked me into it. Abort those fuckers.

"palette swap" doesn't do the concept any justice.

I defy anyone to describe any meaningful difference between the two.

And since when do fundamentalists of any religion have the smallest smidgen of self-awareness?

"palette swap" is perfectly apt - one group is brown, the other is white.