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Comment count is 15
Old_Zircon - 2009-09-10

So education = career training?

Unimpressed


Walt Henderson - 2009-09-10

While I would argue that many schools and universities fail to place enough emphasis on general critical thinking skills, yes, education is largely about career training. I for one would prefer not to live in society populated solely by the holders of useless liberal arts degrees--and I say that as someone with a BA in philosophy.


James Woods - 2009-09-10

Of course it's career training.


Old_Zircon - 2009-09-10

That's the problem.


Walt Henderson - 2009-09-10

No, that's why it's actually worth spending 12-16 years or more of our lives sitting in a cramped little room studying. Because when we get done, some of us might actually be able to do some useful things.


tamago - 2009-09-10

Pretty much what I thought he was gonna say. And all pretty obvious as well. Still, it was probably good for the students of America to hear this anyway.


Baldr - 2009-09-10

I'd be more impressed with this if his plan for improving education wasn't to force students into longer hours of the same rote learning nonsense that we've been doing since the nineteenth century.


tamago - 2009-09-10

Where in this speech did he say that was his plan? Or did you hear this somewhere else?


Baldr - 2009-09-10

From the Audacity of Hope:

"And in fact we already have hard evidence of reforms that work: a more challenging and rigorous curriculum with emphasis on math, science, and literacy skills; longer hours and more days to give children the time and sustained attention they need to learn..."

"Countless studies confirm the educational benefits of strong preschool programs, which is why even families who have a parent at home often seek them out. The same goes for longer school days, summer school, and after-school programs."

I like Barack Obama. I voted for him. I don't disagree that more time in school will result in a more educated student body. What concerns me is that the burden of the work here is being placed on the shoulders of the students, rather than the teachers or the system.

If his speech was about how the government and the educational system should be more accountable to students, I wouldn't have any complaints.


Walt Henderson - 2009-09-10

Because young children would clearly choose to put algebra and American history on the curriculum if we put them in charge of their education!


Baldr - 2009-09-10

I wasn't referring to the curriculum; I'm concerned with the methods used to teach it. However since you opened that area up for discussion, I wish more universities taught their philosophy undergrads about the straw man fallacy.


Walt Henderson - 2009-09-10

Yeah, I was pretty drunk last night. Sorry about that.


Baldr - 2009-09-10

Me too. In retrospect, I'm not sure why I needed to make a big thing about it. It's just a speech.

I am also sorry.


Walt Henderson - 2009-09-10

No problem at all, you were totally right to call me out on that straw man. Rereading what you wrote in the cold light of day, I honestly think we're on the same page here--many of the educators I've known have thought that the way we teach things in this country is screwy, and I'm more than willing to trust their opinions. I think I was confusing your position with Old_Zircon's. To paraphrase my last response in that thread, while I still think education should place a large emphasis on career training, I'd be more than happy if we could find a way to do that without requiring students to sit in cramped little rooms.


MongoMcMichael - 2009-09-10

It's funny that Enjoy, Cena_Mark, and the usual Republican trolls haven't surfaced yet. Could it be that there was no actual socialism inherent in an Obama speech?!?

I'll have to watch again and again until I see the subliminal message telling me to fuck men, murder my Dad, and set fires in churches.


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