Everybody owns more stuff because prices have been going down. Prices have been going down because production costs have been going down. Production costs have been going down because manufacturing jobs are moving overseas. Meanwhile, debt is going up. If you don't factor debt into this (which he and the Heritage Foundation is not in this case), then it's going to look like people just own a bunch of shit.

If you factor in debt, then the poor don't own very much.
If you say "Well then the poor shouldn't go into debt!" then you are also making the case that the poor don't own anything that they're saying they do.

I hate the Heritage Foundation.

Baleen, you are my hero. I'm pretty sure I saw a picture of you in a christmas jumper once.

There's also the point that many of America's poor own things that other people have thrown away. I'm not sure if this qualifies as real wealth. What is the value of 0?

Many of the poor, it turns out, own bicycles; some even own automobiles. They are hardly suffering, as automobiles are very expensive. Many poor working men own not one suit, for everyday use, but two suits, so that one can be cleaned while the other is being worn. They should pay luxury tax.

Oh the poor poor pitiful poor! God forbid they not own the newest latest TV instead of the one they got at a thrift store. The point he's making is that they do just fine, and they proabably don't need the welfare or foodstamps they get. We can cut those benifits and pay off this huge debt Obama's making.

Obviously this injustice can only be avenged by constant monitoring of poor people's possessions. WOOT! WOOOT! WOOOT! The system has determined that a poor person has two pairs of shoes! Correct this decadence violation ASAP! AWOOGA! AWOOGA! AWOOOGA! This poor family turned on their AC! Return temperature to an uncomfortable temperature and wipe those unearned smiles off your peasant faces!

durr durrr durr cena, durr durr durr. Way to completely not understand what the Heritage Foundation is saying.

Also, cutting food stamps cost hardly anything compared to, say, the funding of the utterly worthless Coast Guard.

Come on Baleen, now you should be above petty insults. I may be petty officer, but you are a petty man.
Sosage, we're not measuring social justice based on their possessions. We're just saying they shouldn't be complaining so loudly about thier lot considering the standard of living they have.

Let's put this in as simple logical terms as possible, and I insult you because you ask for it, and, I suspect, enjoy it (or else you wouldn't be in a place where you are continually laughed at).

Here is the basis of Heritage's argument:

The poor are not really poor because they have space, and they own lots of things.

He does not talk about the fact that these things are bought with debt. This would complicate matters because...

If they didn't use debt to buy these things, they wouldn't own these things (making his case useless), but then they'd have the money to buy insurance. But they still wouldn't own these things (but they'd have debt-driven insurance), providing that they are not really old things named TV/Car/Video Game System. And housing? He doesn't even factor mortgages into this. He just uses how much space people have compared to other countries as a factor. UNBELIEVABLE that people are eating this shit up... Or rather, they just want to believe in it, because it makes them feel better. It's like Republican Money Jesus.

The fact that you are unwilling to even question a possible zero value for things named Video Game Consoles (or a 15 year old used car that breaks down all the time, or a tv with no reception) into his stats because you were in the boy scouts and you saw a poor kid with a Sega makes you look like you don't care about truth. There's no doubt that almost all poor people in America are probably better off than people in Gambia or rural China where they are treated as fodder, but then again... Who the fuck cares? Heritage's argument is thus: Stop whining, at least we aren't raping you in the ass every day and burning your children alive.

And at the end, he says that people who benefit from entitlement programs never say "Thank you." This is actually the only true thing about this video.

The people who get things from the government but don't say "thank you" are called conservatives.

Also, you realize that the top 20% income bracket drives 60% of consumption? And that the top 1% drives *20%* of goods consumption in this country?

We should be happy with this arrangement. It means when rich people get tired of things that are old, we can sift through their garbage and become rich like them. Trickle down economics!

To Cena:

An individual insurance plan is astronomically expensive for a low-income household. Such plans are around 8 PER MONTH PER INDIVIDUAL and that's the average cost. That number goes up if there are pre-existing conditions or subsequent health emergencies.

The cost of this bullshit private insurance is basically unaffordable for a low-income family and exceeds the cost of any technological amenities like a television set or a computer a family might purchase.


More on private insurance:

http://www.smartmoney.com/spend/family-money/buying-private-he alth-insurance-14819/

I realize that Baleen has largely got this covered, but it should also perhaps be noted that many of the things that poor people own regularly cost them money because they are substandard.

I've watched this pattern on endless loop, where the poor members of my family buy the things that they can afford, things which then break and need to be replaced (cars, refrigerators, air conditioning, etc).

The result is that over the long term they spend more money on goods that keep actively conspire to keep them poor.

I would argue that the value of many of the goods these ambulatory viagra dispensers are flailing about is negative.

@cena mark

The Heritage Foundation is discussing the amenities of those defined by the Census Bureau as being poor.

Those receiving public assistance != those defined as poor by the census bureau.

Take all X)
Exit B)

DairyKingTee, They are comedians, but people take their views very seriously. Not just that, but they do have a clear political agenda.

That's because the idiots are buying game consoles and satellite TV instead of insurance. Then they come crying to the government about not having any.

Try addressing logic little man, instead of whining like a little bitch.

How is that not using logic. I put 2 points together. 1. Poor people have cable TV and AC. 2. They don't have health insurance. Conclusion they spend that insurance money on luxuries.

So if they did have insurance, those charts would look completely different?

Anyway, Cenababy, you're addressing the issue, however stupidly, of why the poor don't have health insurance. The question I raised is: WHY ISN'T HEALTH INSURANCE ON THE FUCKING LIST?

I'm not interested in talking about the plight of the poor in America until someone introduces some real information that hasn't been stacked and cherry picked. Right now, I want to talk about stacking and cherry picking the data.

I wonder what Stephen Colbert had to say about this. Maybe I can find the link.

Oh wait, sorry. You did answer the question when you said that poor people don't have health insurance. That's why it isn't on the list. Because this is a list of things that poor people have. That's what it is, and what's it's supposed to be.

I find it distressing that Cena considers air conditioning a "luxury."
So the family with the kid with asthma who can't afford health insurance is supposed to make his condition worse by not having the "luxury" of breathable air?

Give me a break. I've been making this arguement for a long time. And trust me they're doing just fine. As a kid in scouts I went to a "poor" person's house to donate food for Thanksgiving. They had a SNES and a Sega Geneses, whereas, I only had a Geneses.

You went to a house when you were in the boy scouts and you saw video games.

This is the argument you are using to justify your belief in the Heritage Foundation.

I would like you to move to a truly poor neighborhood. Then volunteer at a shelter or church. Ask them if they have any input on this man's deceptive statistical approach to defining poverty.

From now on, this is my anecdotal reason for not supporting the boy scouts.

SUPER NES IS THE ONLY RELIABLE INDICATOR OF ECONOMIC PROSPERITY.

Once again cena, you stopped trying. You just don't really care about anything you talk about here. It's so typical of the coast guard mentality really. "Whatever dude, they're in the ocean of their own free will, they're like, gonna drown, or whatever."

So what's your take on this Gayspleen? Give them more foodstamps in this economy?

I'm surprised you think this is about food stamps. Well no. You are acting out of emotion. After all, to think too hard about things would force you to contradict your family, who you probably love with all your heart. You love their sacrifice and you love how they've justified their beliefs and how their sacrifice created a net + for you, Cena Mark guy, mark of a nation, boy scout, missionary, coast guard.

Cena, I talk to conservatives constantly. Many of them are economists and business people. I have to bridge many different beliefs, it's part of my job. I'm a "communications director." I hate it, but that's what I do. I help people grow food. I help veterans, and kids at school, and people in extreme poverty. I've had to constantly question my knee- jerk reactions to things to find a message that can get things done.

You have not. Or should I say, based on when you first started posting here, you have subtly changed yourself without warrant to embrace Ron Paul, which was not what you were like several years ago. You did support the war. You were a conservative Christian. You routinely denigrated gay people. I can't wait until your next transformation! I encourage it, in fact.

You don't feel the need to argue intelligently. This is why you are a punchline to most jokes here. This is why I have fun turning you into a carolina mud toy. You just let that happen.
Maybe you just like the attention. I don't mind giving it to you, it's like pissing on a fire hydrant.

I'm a fiscal conservative and I don't have much sympathy for the poor. That doesn't make me a bad person. Hell they could join the service as I did.
When I first came here a few years ago I wasn't a conservative Christian. I was borderline Christian agnostic. I only made fun of gays, but never said anything hateful. And I always argue intellectually. Its just hard when you're outnumbered and dealing with insults.

You've been asleep in class.

A liberal gets upset when something bad happens to someone who doesn't deserve it.

A conservative gets upset when something good happens to someone who doesn't deserve it.

Stars for John, very astute.

I say "astute" way too much.

It means farts. Long farts.

MOP, CENA, MOP

"Just-world", I mean.

um