We didn't vote for Zelenskyy, or Putin.
We didn't outlaw / jail / murder all political opposition (at least not yet)
We didn't ban the letter Z.


We can make it better for our young men and women who are serving by not sending them into that meat grider.


We can make things better by not interfering in other countries and overthrowing their governments.

I suggest you volunteer your time, money and life if you feel so passionatly about that conflcit.

Don't send my friends kids to die for your Military Industrial Complex stocks to jump a few % points.

Are we to let Putin claim Moldova next? Finland, Poland, and/or Romania?


He's going to invade every country bordering Russia.

That's the trap Napoleon & Hitler fell into...

The slippery hitler slope!

We're part of NATO for better or worst, where we go one we go all.

Finland is a NATO member
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65173043
Poland joined in 1999.

Moldova wants to stay neutral.

Ukraine, the Minsk agreement should have protected Ukraine, but they violated it. Their problem, not NATO's.

I wish people would actually UNDERSTAND the history they are reading. This is more like Italy's failed invasion of Greece. There's no indication after Ukraine that Russia has any ability militarily to do anything other than maintain its borders and maybe keep more republics from breaking away.

I forget, are you the guy that is constantly wrong about the history of this conflict? The one that doesn't know that Ukraine severed ties over 30 years ago, and that this is Putin's final project?

You do know that the Donbas War started in 2014, right?

You do know the Wagner Group was active in Donbas, and were Putin's tool for the annexation of Crimea, right?

You do know that at the time Wagner Group was responsible for the radicalization of the Donbas region pre-2014, right?

You do know that they shot down MH17 because they mistook a passenger plane for a Ukrainian military cargo plane, right?

You do know that Putin has been talking about reclaiming Kyiv for a couple decades, all for Soviet motherland vanity project reasons, right?

You do know that this isn't the first time that Putin has used Kadyrov's forces to work as barrier troops, right?

This isn't some war du jour. This has been happening for a long time.

But hey, if you can't read that the Russians are the aggressors here, I'm going to assume you went to thesaurus.com to find "bellicose", and also we should play online poker some time.

You are very smart, check.

“You do know that at the time Wagner Group was responsible for the radicalization of the Donbas region pre-2014, right?”

I’m pretty sure that was caused by a bunch of Ukrainian Nazis murdering dozens of pro Russian protesters in broad daylight in Odessa and Mariupol, on camera, and continuing to do more of the same.

But hey I bet the propaganda you’re lapping up is probably more accurate.

Ukraine was part of Russia since Peter the Great's victory at Poltava. If, say, California left the US and then joined a Chinese centric military alliance along with Canada and Mexico, China started putting a bunch of military hardware in those countries, and California started violently suppressing regions that wanted to return to the US, what do you think would be the likely reaction of the USA?

The point is not that Russia is the good guy and Ukraine is the bad guy. The point is that there are no good guys. Russia is neither heroic nazi fighters nor cartoon villains; they're just doing what they think is in their national interests with the means available. The US is doing the same thing by pouring money and guns into this proxy war in order to bleed a rival.

Not quite. Ukraine has been part of the Russian empire since Poltava, but they've never been part of "Russia", by which I mean the central Russian state.

To be clear, Ukraine has been part of "Russia" the same way that Tajiks, Uzbeks, Mongolians, and others have been: as part of an empire. And with the collapse of the Soviet Union, most members of that empire wanted out. And most got out.

So your analogy about California doesn't hold. Ukrainians are, and always have been, a separate people.

In addition, modern-day Russia kinda sucks, in all sorts of ways. Pre-invasion Ukraine wasn't a utopia; it had corruption galore, and their language was kinda silly. But it was a much nicer place than Russia.

BTW, Timothy Snyder recently made his lecture available for free for a Ukrainian history course he taught at Yale. Here's episode 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJczLlwp-d8&ab_channel=YaleCou rses

If you have any interest in the subject, I highly recommend listening to those lectures. They fully expose the Russian lies for what they are.

“But it was a much nicer place than Russia.”

Citation needed.

So, Ukraine is entitled to not be part of Russia, but the separatist regions of Ukraine are not entitled to the same consideration?

Listen it’s so simple that any idiot should understand;

Separatism is wrong…unless Taiwan.

Annexation is wrong…unless Israel.

Starting wars is wrong…unless America.

@solro

Wagner was operating and coordinating with Ukrainian separatists that were Neo Nazis prior to the downing of MH17. I didn't say Wagner did it all. Think of Donbas as the Deep South of Ukraine. It's not that simple, but I'm dumbing it down for you.

This was known if you were paying attention a decade ago, and just because you didn't know this doesn't mean I'm "LaPpiNg uP PrOpaGaNdA". That's the laziest out.

It's cool though, because sometimes people don't really know what to say when they don't understand what they're opining about. That would be you in this situation.

I WAS paying attention a decade ago, unlike you

http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=134225

Your attention to this issue started last year through whatever obvious Ukrainian right wing propaganda you’ve been guzzling.

It absolutely didn't, but you've lost the plot once again.

The fact that you've been aware of the Donbas War for a decade and still don't comprehend it should be embarrassing for you, as is the fact that you really think that Putin isn't the aggressor in this escalation.

I always hope that you'll eventually develop some nuanced grasp of geopolitics, but you never fail to disappoint. Deuces, not returning to this thread.

Like the usual propaganda whore, drops a bunch of unsubstantiated claims, throws a hissy shit fit when called out and runs away

hey solro any more of your childhood chums give you an update on how many kohols they've slaughtered?

Ok. Can we find any common ground. Russia never owned Ukraine to begin with

Breaking my word, because I had to see if SolRo got triggered by truth.

Project your hissy fit if you need to, but anybody can find verified reportage of every line I said. Google will hold your hand on fact finding, but I won't.

You say I'm running away, but that's not the case. I'll hug a fool with facts, but I won't hug a fool that's immune to facts and reason.

You keep proving to be the latter.

Yeah the idiot republicans ranting about horse dewormer and “all the scientist said it cures Covid” also kept telling people to google it.

Fucking retards without any proof of their stupid claims tell everyone else to “google it”.


If you’re too lazy and stupid back up your idiotic views then keep your inept opinions to yourself.

I believe the "lazy and stupid" part is you not being able to find every fact I stated on the internet in 5 seconds.

You used to amuse me because you'd always seem to get confused and start foaming at the mouth. You're also somebody who uses the word "retard" and apparently doesn't know how search engines work.

You tried to equate my easily found facts with Republicans talking about horse dewormer?

You're tilting at windmills here. It's less you saying "eww he's running away"; its more me going "eww, he's boring and sad."

Come back and spew, but I'm actually out. I'll probably read and laugh, but you're a waste of my time. /thread

anime villain backstory be like

Actually anime protagonist backstory

https://www.rferl.org/a/women-russian-military-field-wife/32342221 .html

and lord knows the wagner group only recruited from monasteries

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Grayzone

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-recruiting-women-prisoners-war-aft er-large-troop-losses-reports-1787673

Lol Newsweek

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_tipping#/media/File:Cow_lying_on _side_in_field.jpg

liberals proving that they never saw a war that they didn't like

Politics makes for strange bedfellows when you actually have goals, but if your political program is solely "the other side bad" you always remain pure.

yes American liberalism at this point is almost entirely reactionary, but also one of the few things they are very consistent on is support for war in every instance, under every circumstance

Your reductionist argument makes you look like a retard